Finale Forum

What is the oldest Finale version fully functional on OS X 10.11 El Capitan?
I am tired of slow Finale. On my 1y old powerful MBP it is so slow.

Anyone uses 2012 or even 2011?

Both Finale 2012 and 2011 seem to work on my system (10.11.6), but don't use Human Playback, because both programs will quit.

Good, thank you.

If you want speed, why not use Finale 25? And why are you on El Cap?

(Are you sure you're running El Cap on a 1-year-old MBP? The 2016 models came with 10.12.)

BuonTempi wrote:If you want speed, why not use Finale 25? And why are you on El Cap?

(Are you sure you're running El Cap on a 1-year-old MBP? The 2016 models came with 10.12.)

Well, why should I upgrade my OS if it is still supported?
Yes, I have installed v25 and it is equally terribly slow. Finale doesn't access the true GPU core. Something is ridiculously wrong with Apple + MM.

Sadly, Apple is not doing a proper job any more.
Finale 25, and numerous other software I have that works equivalently on a PC machine, are compatible with OS Windows 7. Remember: W7 is from the same time of OS X Leopard (10.5)! And Leopard is considered "very very old, ancient". Apple doesn't fix problems, they juts introduce them. I can't blame only MM for this. My older machines are "forced" to be updated (at least no current browser can be used on Leopard), thus I have extremely slow machines, completely unusable for work.
iMac from 2007 flies with Leopard and Finale 2009. I have tons of perfectly working software for it (incl. Logic Studio, Pro Tools, Adobe Suite, etc..., with all printed manuals.)
Yet, my other machines cannot have "downgraded" OS from pre-installed Yosemite.
But all my Macs, from 2007 to to-day can run Windows 7, and all they do it extremely fast.
Therefore I blame Apple.

Why don't I use Windows than?
I will. But after some years, when I do a massive upgrade of all my machines and software. Right now I have invested so much money and time and effort to be where I am.

I'd suggest that you run the Diagnostic Tool EtreCheck over your Macs, as the slowness you're experiencing may have some other cause. I would say most reports are that F25 is very fast on Mac.
https://etrecheck.com

All software makers want users to run the latest version. Microsoft (and even Linux) is no different. All software is temporary.

You have two choices, really: either never upgrade your OS and keep the apps that are the same age (accepting the increasing lack of support and compatibility); or keep everything up-to-date, accepting that some things -- hardware and software -- may get left behind. Mixing the two strategies -- updating some things and leaving others alone -- will cause problems.

I hope you find a solution. But new versions of Windows are starting to cut-off older hardware and apps, too!

BuonTempi wrote:as the slowness you're experiencing may have some other cause.

Just to clarify, it is ONLY Finale that is so slow. All my other applications, including very heavy ones, work instantly. At least, the user experience is not lagging at all, everything works amazingly fast, boot time about 7 seconds.

With Finale, all tasks are lagged, waiting time with or without the rainbow circle. I don't speak about rendering to audio, or scanning, or even playback. Only the engraving usage is slow. It includes: note input, staff drag, page drag, and so on.

Here is a file that you can test on your Mac. It is created from the scratch in the just downloaded demo of Finale 25 for Mac. No old templates was used. Regular Finale fonts, no other edits, except note entry.
Use some advanced tasks, such as inserting the small note values in the empty stave, drag pages, respace staves, copy-paste, etc.

---=== http://bit.ly/2qSzX4o ===---

BuonTempi wrote:All software makers want users to run the latest version. Microsoft (and even Linux) is no different.

Yes. Linux Debian has LTS about 5+ years.
Currently foremost supported Windows OS is Windows 7 from 2009. And it will be supported until 2020.
Currently foremost supported Mac OS is OS X 10.11 from 2016, and is going to be obsolete this year. So I am totally speechless about that insane release scheme by Apple that breaks user's software and plugins, makes difficult software development, and in the most cases leaves users either open to threats or with hardly used hardware, and also increasing costs and time. Everything they proclaim for new upgrade that it is quicker, faster, smoother, is actually opposite. Whoever wants to advocate that insanity^2, go for it.

OCTO wrote:… … …Use some advanced tasks, such as inserting the small note values in the empty stave, drag pages, respace staves, copy-paste, etc.… … …

For me in Finale 25.5, OS 10.12.6 on a slim 12 in MacBook 512 SSD (half free) 8 GB memory, everything other than dragging staves while in the Staff Tool seems to be working efficiently, including note entry, copy and paste &c. On the other hand, as soon as I click on a stave handle all the entries become invisible, but not the stave itself, and that could make life very difficult when trying to adjust vertical spacing. On my desktop with spinning HD and large portrait monitor (necessary for serous work on this sort of score), things do seem rather more challenging.

I'll test my desktop Mac performance with this file more seriously this evening when the fire has been lit, as the room it is in is rather cold (I can use my MacBook at my kitchen table, kept warm and cosy by an always-on, oil-burning Rayburn cooker).

OCTO, I can now confirm that just about everything is hopelessly slow with your file on my desktop Mac (also using 10.12.6, but with spinning HD and large portrait monitor). In comparison, the only problem with the MacBook appears to be the rather debilitating one already mentioned when trying to move a stave up or down by grabbing its handle. This also occurs with the desktop.

If I have time on Sunday, I may link the MacBook to the large monitor to see whether or not that slows it with your file.

Thank you David.

It just confirms my guessing that the GPU utilisation and CPU single-core usage is the main obstacle of Finale getting off the ground.
The larger monitor and larger DPI makes Finale just slower.

David Ward wrote:On the other hand, as soon as I click on a stave handle all the entries become invisible, but not the stave itself, and that could make life very difficult when trying to adjust vertical spacing.

David, I believe we discussed this once before.

I just switched over to Finale 25 and OS 10.12 after many years of being in OS 10.8.5. So far, the only problem I have encountered is the one you mention and a new strange jerkiness in scrolling when there is a lot of text in the file. This new symptom is also seen when I use Finale 2014.5 in OS 10.12. If I delete the text, the entries stop disappearing when a staff handle is dragged, and the scrolling becomes normal.

In short, Finale seems to have new memory problems with text in OS 10.12. I wonder if this has any connection with OCTO's issues?

So I am totally speechless about that insane release scheme by Apple that breaks user's software and plugins,

The only "insane" part is the belief that Apple is responsible for user's software and plugs.

Apple warned developers years ago that everything was to be 64 bit. In fact, they were encouraging the move by OS 10.8. Many companies ignored that or kicked the can. How many remember that Finale 2012 was supposed to be 64 bit? Nope, didn't happen—or 2014 either.

Apple has now declared that 32 bit will no longer be supported with the release of OS 10.14 later this year. 5 years ago, they stated that would happen with OS 10.10. I wonder if they'll keep the promise this time.

Nothing wrong with sticking with the OS and versions of Finale where everything works. Everything wrong with trying to use those old systems to connect to the internet.