What is wrong with MM and Touchscreen devices!!??

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:32 pm

miker wrote:
Michel R E wrote: Simply look at the wording and punctuation of the thread title.
Let’s remember that not all forum members have English as a first (or second) language, please.
I don't think the use of "!!??" is one of linguistic differences.
As a polyglot myself, I can assure you that that punctuation means pretty much the same thing in all languages.
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Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
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Jay Emmes
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Post by Jay Emmes » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:27 pm

Not only are not all forum members speaking natively English, but not all are accomplished authors either. So, let's not focus on the wording, punctuation or whatever of forum members, but on the topic itself, please.

I'm fairly sure we can all agree on the fact that there is no 'one type of Finale user'. We all use the app in a different way, even for different goals. To say or even think that 'users do not wish or have a use for this or that' is not recognising that it's the app's strength to be used in different ways, for different goals.
Likewise, we can all agree that handheld devices are a rapidly growing market segment and have replaced desktop computers entirely for quite a number of people already. To not recognise this as a software developer is to bar yourself from the (near) future of consumer computing.

Whether a very small screen is inconvenient for some is irrelevant to others. Whether playback sounds good or is even at all available will not be relevant to all either. Nor is exact placement of elements a definite must for all. Not all create large scores with many staves, not all create scores that are ready for publishing, not all have need for the possibility to export an audio file or an XML. A feature to one is unnecessary ballast to another.
And as such there are no invalid or nonsensical feature requests — only feature request that may be of no use for you, as your requests will be useless to others. Luckily we are not all alike.
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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:12 pm

Jay Emmes wrote:… … … … Luckily we are not all alike.
I suspect you may be right in all you say.

However, it's difficult for those who like me have minimal business sense to judge whether or not Finale on a touch screen might become a necessary development to keep the company afloat and profitable. I can say it would almost certainly be a completely useless development for me as I do my serious Finale work at the monitor pictured (although I do sometimes struggle to make limited on-the-move edits using a MacBook with 12 in retina screen).

Are these very different approaches necessarily incompatible?
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castellanos
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Post by castellanos » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:30 am

Knut wrote:I think the OP's question is totally valid, and I agree with him that there is a tendency by some users to dismiss posts like this out of hand as unconstructive complaints. Even though this is not an official forum, I think it is a totally legitimate arena to spike some debate about what's going on with MM and why they haven't pursued this technology, which is what I think the OP is simply trying to do.

That said, I think the answer to the question is simple; it's a matter of resources. If Mark Adler had enough time, money and developers at his disposal to realise something like this, I sincerely doubt that he would have dismissed tablet support as a gimmick. However, MakeMusic hasen't released anything substantial for quite a while, and as far as I've read, there are no plans to do so in 2018 either. It seems pretty clear that MakeMusic is either struggling or taking their time to release something truly extraordinary, while in the mean time fixing as many bugs as they can and releasing the occasional minor update. The only planned substantial overhaul I've seen confirmed is Finale's text capabilities, which, although certainly needed, seems hardly enough to attract many new customers or wow a lot of the old ones.

Additonally, MM also has to weigh their commitment to Finale with that to SmartMusic, which, while it may not be of particular interest to many of us, seems to bring in a substantial amount of the company's revenue.

Whatever the case may be, tablet support would require time and resources that I think both MakeMusic and a majority of Finale users would rather spend differently. Personally, I have no doubt that this is the right move. Time will tell if the results will come soon enough.
Knut wrote: I don't believe the OP is accusatory at all, but it certainly is provocative and challenges other forum members to debate the issue. But what's wrong with that? There seems to be a lot of emotion and loyalty issues surrounding notation software. Generally, people don't take kindly to criticism of their beloved programme, unless it's carefully worded with a very positive framing to soften the edges. Harsh or acidulous critiques of competitive products, however, is generally not a problem. It's fascinating, really.
Thank you very much Knut for your words, that is exactly what I meant.
I do agree that the post title is kind of provocative but please, don't take it in a wrong way! My intention was purely to create a debate among forum members, even knowing that this isn't an official MM forum.
Talking strictly about Finale's "untouchscreen" support :wink: I don't mind if Finale can't handle pen input... actually, it can! I used Finale on my Surface Pro 4 with the pen, and it just reacted as mouse, no problem with that. (I think even palm rejection worked as well). My biggest complain is the lack of some basic gestures like "Pinch to zoom" or "Two fingers scrolling". I don't think having those features will harm anyone, actually it will make the user experience much more pleasant, faster and definitely is not a gimmick anymore. Never was...
MuseScore, Sibelius, Dorico, are moving in that direction, at least supporting some basic touchscreen gestures.
Talking about my way of english writing: I always believed that my english was good enough for forum posting... apparently not. :? I apologize if my way of writing and/or expressing was not appropriate and led to a misunderstanding. I can still try in German, Italian or Spanish if you all want! :wink:
Greetings!
Last edited by castellanos on Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bvstudios
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Post by bvstudios » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:50 am

Castellanos, your English is far better than my French, German or for that matter, Spanish. There is no reason to feel you are not communicating with the great many here for whom English is pretty much the only tongue they have. (I speak reasonably decent English, but there are folks who appear to struggle their way through my Irish accent, for various reasons)

If there was a quibble, it was not about the words you chose.
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castellanos
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Post by castellanos » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:55 am

Thanks a lot bvstudios!!! That's a relief!! :wink:
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Vaughan
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Post by Vaughan » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:12 pm

castellanos wrote:...My biggest complain is the lack of some basic gestures like "Pinch to zoom" or "Two fingers scrolling". I don't think having those features will harm anyone, actually it will make the user experience much more pleasant, faster and definitely is not a gimmick anymore.
Interesting that the world of the tablet has, at least partially, influenced the computer world. I use pinch-zoomng and two-finger scrolling all the time on my computer by using a trackpad. The differences between the OSes are certainly diminishing. I can imagine instances in which I could conceivably use Finale on an iPad Pro which has, for a tablet, a large screen and good speakers. Having said this, I agree with the assessment that MM lacks the resources to delve into the tablet market (at the moment) and I would frankly rather see them spend their limited resources on improving Finale as a computer program.
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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:17 pm

The thing I find unbelievable is the people that think their way is not only the best way, it is the ONLY it should be done. They don't seem to embrace any new feature request. The fact that the new feature was there, they need not make use of seems moot. Did you ever think some of the stuff they love now was a new feature at one time!

Then, to boot, they lambast folks that encourage improvements in Finale. Go figure!
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castellanos
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Post by castellanos » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:47 am

Vaughan wrote:Interesting that the world of the tablet has, at least partially, influenced the computer world. I use pinch-zoomng and two-finger scrolling all the time on my computer by using a trackpad.
Thanks for this words. I do not have my Macbook Pro at the moment, I'm working only with Windows.
I worked with Finale a very few times on a Mac, so I do remember so well but it's interesting to see that pinch to zoom and two-finger scrolling work with the trackpad on the Mac.
On windows (Surface Pro 4) I can confirm that neither of those two gestures work with the trackpad, which is a real pain.
I think if they work with the trackpad, they should work with the touchscreen as well.
Finale 27.0.0.710
Gigabyte - Intel Core i7-4790 3.60GHz. / 16GB RAM
Acer Aspire 5951G / Intel Core i7 2670QM - 2.20GHz. / 16GB RAM
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All running Windows 10 Pro 64-bit.

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