expression fermata fouls up preceding measure

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lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:35 pm

The the attached .musx file reduces a problem I'm having to
its barest essentials. Solving this problem is extremely
important to me, but I'll save the details for below.

All you need to know to start is that the expression "HP 1"
sets the tempo to a quarter note = 60 bpm.

Play it back, listen, and watch the playback cursor.

About halfway through the third beat, the cursor jerks and
the tempo suddenly changes.

I finally discovered that the culprit is the FERMATA in the
NEXT BAR.

This is not a normal fermata. Some of you who frequent this
list may remember that some time ago I sought advice on how
to create a fermata with a number under it, hanging over
nothing. (Because if I hide the rest, I hide the fermata,
which is an articulation.)

Someone (motet?) suggested a two-part expression i.e., where
the fermata is *not* an articulation. (It may even be
slightly larger than the standard fermata, though it doesn't
look like it. I combine this with the numbers 1 - 8 (meaning
seconds) create timed pauses.

But the problem is *not* with my expression "HP 1", which is
what I suspected.

All evidence is that the problem *is* with the fermata
alone, which as I said is an expression, not an
articulation. I've set the playback attribute to Type: None,
Effect: Set to Value 0. It should be as dead as if it were a
text object, right?

Here's the key:

When I remove the fermata (alone) the problem disappears.
When I replace it, the problem recurs.

I progressively removed absolutely everything I could until
I could create this reproducible test case.

I'm sure anyone who has a clue will be able to guess what's
wrong on the basis of the information given. Nonetheless,
I'll throw in these details.

The "HP" expressions are "hidden pauses". In the piano work
at hand, most are tucked up under the top staff, near the
barline. They are in 9-point type, but ultimately I will
check the Hidden box on the main text page of the Expression
Designer so that they will not appear on the music at all.
Most of them appear in 1/4 bars with quarter rests. The
numbers HP 1 ... HP 8 are length of the pauses. I set the
tempo in each one to a quarter note = however many seconds
it takes to produce a beat of that length, so 1 is 1=60, 2
is q=30 ... 8 is q=7.5. (Follow that? Trust me, it works.)

The barlines (about half of them) and time signatures (all
of them), too, will be hidden. I've tried this. It works.

But you shouldn't need to know that because it seems the
problem is with the FERMATA, not the HP expression.

What might be helpful is to know that this movement has a 40
of these. (The movement consists of phrases separated by
timed pauses.)

My gut inclination is to create another symbol other than a
fermata to put in there.

Any idea on what would work and not introduce other
complications?

Any idea why a fermata in the next meaasure affects the
playback of the current measure?

Thanks much.

(What happens with this forum software when I click Place inline on a .musx file?)
problem.musx
(84.94 KiB) Downloaded 148 times


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miker
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Post by miker » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:49 pm

I know nothing about HP, but there is a setting in Preferences that might have some bearing.
Screen Shot 2018-02-12 at 8.46.44 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-02-12 at 8.46.44 AM.png (52.99 KiB) Viewed 2602 times
And "place inline" shows your attachment as a text string, which you can copy an paste wherever you want it in your post, like I did, here.
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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:50 pm

Expand the Playback window and click the HP Preferences button. Click the Tempo tab and uncheck "ritard before fermata". This seems to solve the problem, but I have no idea if it introduces any unwanted side effects.

N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


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lynndavidnewton
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:11 pm
Finale Version: 25.5.0.259
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:08 pm

Wow. Well changing that preference fixes it all right. Dang. Who woulda thought?

So the point is that the fermata that's an expression does indeed have an effect
on playback. I wonder why, and I also wonder why it's so dramatic.
In the example I gave, the "ritard" resulted in the last two and a half quarters
of the measure taking about 12 seconds by itself. Waaay too much.

Next question ... is that preference carried over in the file itself? (I hope, and which sounds reasonable.)

The point being that if I pass it to others to listen to, I don't want to have to tell them
to set a preference. And I don't want to bring up some other score and suddenly
find that it's no longer playing ritards before fermatas. (I knew there was an option
like that somewhere, just didn't know where.)

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miker
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Post by miker » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:57 pm

That preference is global, as far as I know. If you send your people an MP3, they won’t have to change anything.
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lynndavidnewton
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Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:11 pm
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:18 pm

miker wrote:That preference is global, as far as I know. If you send your people an MP3, they won’t have to change anything.
By global, I guess you mean that if I set it for one score, it will apply to all scores that I playback on my own installation,
but won't for someone else looking at my score under Finale.

If that's true, then it's not a satisfactory solution, for two reasons:

(1) Sometime I share things with other Finale users -- particularly my brother, who is also a (cellist and) composer
and about equally skilled with Finale as I am. We help each other figure things out.

(2) I have other scores that I would like to play back that are far more traditional and for which I kind of want
the default behavior. I dislike the idea of having to reset my preferences from score to score.

Therefore it looks like I need to find another symbol to replace that fermata and include an
explanation in the performance instructions.

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