Tremolo position?

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

Post Reply
User avatar
dankreider
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:14 pm
Finale Version: Finale 25.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by dankreider » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:06 pm

See below. The violin 1 and 2 tremolos I manually positioned. The viola and cello tremolos are where Finale put them automatically.
tremolos jpeg.jpg
tremolos jpeg.jpg (70.14 KiB) Viewed 4755 times
Where should they go? I always thought tremolos should go where the stem would be if notes had one. Why does Finale put it in such a strange spot?

Thanks!
Dan
Finale 25.5
Windows 10
Garritan mostly
General Editor at gracemusic.us


User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:46 pm

Finale does odd things at times. For this, Jari has a plugin to fix things easily. It is the Yada Yada Tremolo plugin. You can even adjust settings used with this plugin.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:47 pm

Can you write them using the Easy Tremolos plug-in?
Attachments
Screen Shot 2018-02-14 at 7.46.29 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-02-14 at 7.46.29 AM.png (132.02 KiB) Viewed 4743 times
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:52 pm

That is for a different type of tremolo. The stacked notes with the 3 slashes means both notes being bowed multiple times. The one with separated notes and 3 slashes between means alternating between 2 different notes, generally under one bow movement.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:00 pm

Ah, thanks, Zuill! Always more to learn.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8225
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:22 pm

This is a bug in Finale wherein "note side" and "stem side" are reversed for whole notes. It can be solved by making a different articulation to use with whole notes from that used with stemmed notes. Below is what I do. Notice it uses "note side."

JW Yadda Yadda is great, but you may find yourself running it again and again. I've found that by fixing the definitions of the tremolos, JW Yadda Yadda is mostly not necessary. The only time I use it is when there are tremolos on beamed or flagged notes. I've changed the single-, double-, and triple-slash articulations for stemmed notes in addition to adding the triple-slashed below for wholes notes. I can probably attach a library of these if anyone is interested.
Attachments
trem.png
trem.png (52 KiB) Viewed 4721 times

User avatar
Michel R E
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Michel R E » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:04 pm

miker wrote:Ah, thanks, Zuill! Always more to learn.
it's not your fault. The tremolos the OP was specifically asking about actually don't show in his image unless you scroll down... they are in the viola and cello sections, rather than the violins.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

Hector Pascal
Posts: 432
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:43 pm
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by Hector Pascal » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:27 pm

Apropos of nothing in particular, my eye has noticed that the Violin I tremolos in the first three bars might be in need of aligning, so as to be consistent.

Hector.

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:13 am

Michel R E wrote:
miker wrote:Ah, thanks, Zuill! Always more to learn.
it's not your fault. The tremolos the OP was specifically asking about actually don't show in his image unless you scroll down... they are in the viola and cello sections, rather than the violins.
Thanks, but I still wouldn’t have known they were to be played as a double stop. Would brackets ever be used in this situation, or would it be assumed that if you play the instrument, you know what it means?
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:19 am

Since we can only see a small portion, we don't know all that might be there. If it said divisi somewhere, then the notes would be split between players. Sometimes brackets are used for double stops for clarity. I can't really say here what the context is here without more information or a bigger view of the score.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8225
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:21 am

Double stop or divisi, it's still different from the tremolo between two notes.

User avatar
N Grossingink
Posts: 1786
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
Finale Version: 27.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by N Grossingink » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:47 pm

If those tremolos are divisi, which I hope they are, there should be a tremolo mark above the top voice and an additional one below the bottom voice, each centered on the notehead.

N.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3

User avatar
David Ward
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by David Ward » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:10 pm

N Grossingink wrote:If those tremolos are divisi, which I hope they are, there should be a tremolo mark above the top voice and an additional one below the bottom voice, each centered on the notehead.
I'm not sure it's really necessary, when the rhythm is simple and the same in the two parts, to have the tremolo both above and below. In a different situation, were things to get noticeably more complicated, the string section principals to whom I've spoken would normally prefer a stave for each line of a divisi (in the parts at least - the score might be moot). Clearly, one stave for each string section is OK in the OP's original example (for both score and parts).

I haven't checked the ‘official’ advice from Gould &c, but will.
Last edited by David Ward on Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

User avatar
dankreider
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:14 pm
Finale Version: Finale 25.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by dankreider » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:45 pm

Generally, divisi doesn't need to be notated (at least in my circles). Players will always divide unless you write "non div" or use a bracket. And sometimes they'll ignore it, and divide anyways. lol. Nobody plays double stops unless they're forced to.

Of course I agree with David - if it gets complex, individual parts are best.

Whether it's divisi or not, only one tremolo is needed.
Finale 25.5
Windows 10
Garritan mostly
General Editor at gracemusic.us

Post Reply