Change I didn't notice? turning pages in a score

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:34 pm

I used to navigate the page view of my score by simply using ctrl + page down/page up to advance or go back one page. if I was a the bottom of a page I could simply hit page down and it would automatically move to the top of the next page.

oddly now, ctrl + page down used when at the bottom of a page brings me to the bottom of the next page.

I can't find the right words (apparently) to get information on this in Finale's help manual.

Have they changed page view navigation while I wasn't looking?

(I recently upgraded from Finale 25 to Finale 25.5)
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:34 pm

Michel R E wrote:ctrl + page down used when at the bottom of a page brings me to the bottom of the next page.
That's the way it works in 2014.5. However, a plain PgDn should take you to the top of the next page. Perhaps you have a virtual stuck Ctrl key? Have you tried rebooting?

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:21 pm

I turn my computer off every evening. This "problem" has been since I upgraded to 25.5

By the way, I've never understood this "reboot the computer" advice... do people seriously leave their computers on for weeks on end?
Mine gets turned off when I go to bed, and only turned on again when it's time to work the next morning.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
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XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:53 pm

I do what you do, but a lot of people let the computer run 24/7, yes. In olden times there was a rumor that turning things off and on stressed the electronics, but--at the risk of starting a thrash--I suspect it's always been a waste of electricity.

But anyway I think Ctrl-PgDn has always taken one the the same vertical placement on the next page.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:19 pm

How the buttons operate depends on the page view style one chooses. Try different styles to see what I mean.

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:29 pm

ok, I always work in one of two page views: scroll view, and "single page" page view.

In page view (while working on layout) I've always simply pressed page down to go from the bottom of one page to the next, and likewise, page up to go to the top of the current page, and again to go to the bottom of the preceding page.

It has always worked this way, as far back as I can remember. I finished the score and parts for a symphonic work a few months ago and this is how I got through my score.

Now, this no longer works like it used to. yes, now, ctrl+page up/down brings one to the equivalent spot on the preceding or next page.
It didn't do this before, but I can live with that... IF, pressing page down/up (without Ctrl) would allow my to scroll through my score. It no longer does.
Page up/down now only navigates up and down on a single page. It won't go past that page, to a preceding, or subsequent page.

Is there a setting related to page navigation somewhere? I haven't found anything useful in the help file, and going through all the menus one by one is becoming very time-consuming.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:11 am

In Book Style Row, it works like Motet said. In Book Style Column, it works like you said.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:45 am

In Book style/row, does plain PgDn take you from the bottom of one page (if you're zoomed in,say) to the top of the next?

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:02 am

Looseleaf Style Column does something like that. It is more like a continuous scroll downward.

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:53 am

I pulled out a score in Finale 2012, and in 2012 (as well as 25.0) in page view "Looseleaf Style: Current page Only" using PageUp/Down scrolls through each page, and then scrolls to the next (or previous page).

With Finale 25.5 it ONLY scrolls up and down through one single page.

So obviously, there was a change somewhere. Something now forces Finale 25.5 into seeing a single page as "the only page".

I don't use the other page views because they waste too much screen real-estate. It would be nice not to lose basic functionality with a "free upgrade" of the program.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

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Post by BuonTempi » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:02 pm

In Looseleaf, Single Page, I can navigate to the next page with Command - Page Down. I imagine Windows will use a different meta-key, but presumably this should be described in the Help pages.

Traditionally in computing, Page Up and Page Down display the next "screenful", rather than the next 'paper page'.
The behaviour of the various buttons for navigation in Finale always seemed to me to vary, depending on whether you were in Page or Scroll View. They may have changed things to standardize the experience.

If you use Looseleaf Column, I can't see how that 'wastes screen real estate'; and it would let you scroll down with your preferred key.

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:59 pm

page down and page up have always shown the "next screenfull" for me as well... but when the "next screenfull" is on the next page, it has also kindly jumped TO that page.

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that I have had defective versions of Finale for all these years, where I've been able to page-up and page-down back and forth across page breaks, while everyone else has blissfully been using ctrl+page up and ctrl+page down.

Ctrl+page up/down brings you to the same spot on the next page. in other words, if while examining my page of music I get to the bottom of the page, pressing ctrl+page down will not bring me to the next page, top. it will bring me to the next page, bottom. From there, I have to rescroll back up to the top of my page.


When you get to the bottom of a page, it is far more logical to assume that you wish to then move to the TOP of the next page rather than the bottom of the next page.
It appears that other than changing my page view to one of the looseleaf or tiled or whatever choices, there is now no other option for this while in single page view.

When I work on a page by page basis, I don't want to see the edges of another page, nor the top or bottom of preceding or subsequent pages. I want to see the page on which I am working. Which is exactly how Finale has functioned for years.
This change is a reduction in efficiency. I often find myself rapidly going back and forth from the bottom of one page to the top of another. I can no longer do this.

Changing this is a very bad design choice, in my opinion.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:07 pm

I like the "old" PgDn behavior as well--I use it to look at a whole part up close--so I'm sorry to hear of this change.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:13 pm

I can confirm there is a change as well. I wonder if this has ever been reported to MM. Maybe that should be done. Since I have a different work flow (I like the side by side pages, and I drag left and right as I go), this has not even been noticed by me.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:56 pm

Will you report it, Michel? They don't usually fix things, but since this occurred with a minor update, perhaps it's easy to undo.

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:09 pm

I did report it, yes, Motet.
This is a serious enough problem that it is really causing a huge delay in my normal workflow.

Although to be frank, I have to say I don't hold out much hope for an intelligent response from the MM helpdesk.

I sent a report regarding my Kontakt Player instrument loading window being partially off-screen, and asking if there was a process from bringing it back to its normal centre-screen position. I included details of ALL of the steps I had taken, including trashing my preferences, rebooting multiple times (as if I don't reboot my computer every day anyways), etc...

And the very first thing the helpdesk person asked was "can you try rebooting your computer".
They then asked me to take a screen shot of the loading window (you can't, the minute you do it becomes a background operation, and whatever function you're using to snap that screen shot takes precedence).
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:04 pm

According to the Help pages from Finale 2012 on the Mac:

PAGE UP: Move up a full screen (page view)
PAGE DOWN: Move down a full screen (page view)
COMMAND(or CTRL) + PAGE UP: Move to previous page (page view)
COMMAND(or CTRL) + PAGE DOWN: Move to next page (page view)

In Scroll View, Command plus Page Up/Down moves left and right a screenful; Page Up/Down by themselves move up and down by a screenful.

The current Help pages seem to match that. The original 'feature' seems undocumented: perhaps its removal is a bug; perhaps it's deliberate; perhaps it's a condition of new screen drawing APIs being used. I'll mention it in the next round of beta-testing.
Last edited by BuonTempi on Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:51 pm

As Michel said, if you're zoomed in such that the page doesn't fit on the screen and you're at the bottom, Ctrl-PgDn takes you to the bottom of the next page.

Based on past experience, I don't expect they'll fix it. "Looseleaf style: Column" would seem the best alternative.

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Post by BuonTempi » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:32 pm

Ah. Sorry, I missed that. Page Height Zoom settings (Command Alt [ on Mac) in Column View should give a window showing just one page, with the easy scroll or button between pages.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:38 pm

Of course, but sometimes you want to see things closer-up.

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Perotinus
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Post by Perotinus » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:19 pm

I complained about this same thing last year:
http://www.finaleforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 046#p50045

Note the bug that happens when you try to zoom in on a portion of a page when in a multi-page viewing mode.
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