Finale Forum

I haven't written for any sort of "mixed" ensembles in a long while.
I'm wondering if there's any sort of preference for the order of instruments in the score.
The piece is for violin, clarinet, and piano.
I know the piano will be the bottom staves of the system, but for the violin and clarinet, how do I place them?

Why I'm wondering: my logical instinct would be to put the violin at the top and clarinet between vln and pft. Because the clarinet plays a lower register than the violin.

However, in an orchestral score, the strings would be at the bottom and woodwinds at the top, inverting the violin and clarinet.

Any suggestions?

I usually put WW (in conventional order) above strings (ditto) in chamber music, with piano at the bottom. Checking a few scores, that seems to be usual.

I don't think these things should be regarded as inviolate absolutes, should you have a good reason for doing otherwise.

Even in orchestral & vocal full scores, I have the habit of placing plucked strings (in my case most likely mandolin and harp) and then keyboards below voices (or concerto soloists). This is definitely against the established convention, but no-one has even commented, let alone complained. In chamber music (as in your case), the only person using the full score is the pianist and I doubt very much that they'll complain if you choose to flout convention - as long as you are clear and consistent.

Michel R E:

FWIW, I agree with David Ward.

It just seems 'right' that the Clarinet would be on top, with the Violin next, then piano.

Will be checking Gould and/or Read to see if there is any tangible reference.

and one more thing that I agree with David about:
if I saw your score with clarinet and violin reversed, it would not be cause for complaints or snickering.

With this sort of thing I think it's fine to do what you want regardless of what Gould or Read may say. Piano on the bottom seems pretty well established, and seems like an aid to the pianist for that reason. For the other two, I guess in the absence of much of a preference I would stick with normal orchestral score order and put the clarinet on top. But if putting the violin on top makes more sense to you, I say go for it.

There is no real convention for score order of mixed instruments. there are numerous examples of unconventional score orders. Let's be honest, even putting the piano at the bottom, which we all agree would be most logical, is against the orchestral order.
Ernst Krenek, e.g., puts the clarinet above the string trio in the first movement, but between the violin and the viola in the second movement of his Serenade, op.4. Anton Webern, e.g., puts the violin below the celesta and the guitar, but above the clarinets in his Zwei Lieder, op. 19. Both deviations from a perhaps more conventional orchestral order make sense, since they reflect the role of the instrument in that piece (higher voice as opposed to middle voice).

If you write a score for a conductor, I suggest sticking to the orchestral order. If you write a score for chamber music purpose, thus mainly for reference, choose any order which makes sense.

I have seen and played dozens of works for this combination including works by Bartok, Khachaturian, Martino, Krenek, Milhaud and Ross Lee Finney.

All put the clarinet at the top.

According to Gould, pp. 514,515:
"In a small mixed ensemble, arrange the staves to reflect the instrumental tessitura, from high to low."

So, if you're using Gould as a compass, then Violin would be top staff, then Clarinet.
Michel R E: your initial instinct was correct as far as I'm now concerned.

The other posters that weighed in all have valid points too, and really, at the end of the day, nobody is going to vilify you for switching the order.
Personally, I've been giving it some thought and the Violin on top just makes sense in terms of vertical space to me. The Clarinet (written) can and does go down three ledger lines and can live down there, while the Violin can only go down two. (and doesn't usually make a habit of staying down there too long.)
If I had a busy, complex contemporary score I would want the slightly lower tessitura in the middle of the system-just seems like it would look better too.
(I'm glad i could work through this with everyone. thanks. )