Mixed Time Signature

[peterqd]

Hi, I've searched the forum using "Mixed Time" but nothing came up. Maybe I'm using wrong terminology.

I've been asked to prepare the solo part from the piano score of "Andante et Scherzo" for Trumpet in C by Henri Busser. The Scherzo is in 7/4, with dotted barlines indicating the division between 3/4 and 4/4 in each bar. I know how to create the dotted barlines and how to create mixed time signatures incorporating a "+" sign. But I don't know which is correct -

"3+4/7" or "3/7+4/7" or even "3/4 + 4/4"

And if I use one of these, does it affect the number of beats in each bar or does it remain at 7/4 with "false" dotted barlines"?

Thanks

[neil101]

If I may,
It looks like the original edition just stated the 7/4 and used the dashed barline to indicate the division, rather than state 3/4 + 4/4. Very readable. You could make a 3/4 measure then 4/4 measure and have both display 7/4 as the different time signature. You set this up once and then copy and paste to quickly fill in all the bars you need. Example:

[Peter Thomsen]

… I don't know which is correct -

"3+4/7" or "3/7+4/7" or even "3/4 + 4/4" …

"3+4/7" is definitely not correct if the time signature is 7/4 (I suspect that you made a typo).

Perhaps you meant

3+4
over
4

???


"3/7+4/7" is definitely not correct if the time signature is 7/4 (I suspect that you made a typo).

Perhaps you meant

3
over
4

plus

4
over
4

???

Anyway, the Time Signature Tool is a very powerful tool, and all the time signature versions are doable in Finale.

For what it is worth, Elaine Gould recommends simply notating the time signature as 7/4, with the subdivision written above the first measure:

MixedMetre.jpg (11.76 KiB) Viewed 3096 times

… if I use one of these, does it affect the number of beats in each bar or does it remain at 7/4 with "false" dotted barlines"? …

You can get 7 quarters in each measure, no matter what time signature version you choose.
Finale can do it (= you can get whatever you need).

However, you will not “automatically” get the “false dashed barlines“.
But you can add them with the Expression Tool.

[peterqd]

Thanks for the replies. I did indeed make a silly mistake! I edited my post to add the 3/4 + 4/4 part but I should have deleted the 3/7 and 4/7.

For the purpose of music spacing my inclination is to separate the 7 beats into two bars with a dashed or dotted barline in between. Using an expression to create "false" barlines would seem more awkward. However I will try both ways.

I will stick with the original 7/4 time signature for this piece as Elaine recommends, but I'm still unclear when a mixed signature is more applicable and what the difference is between Peter's first two examples.

[Peter Thomsen]

… I'm still unclear … and what the difference is between Peter's first two examples.

I was trying to show your first two examples.

The difference between my first two examples is this:

In my first example there is only one fraction (= one numerator and one denominator):

3+4
over
4

In my second example there are two fractions:

3
over
4

+

4
over
4

[peterqd]

Thanks Peter, I did get that and I'm sorry I wasn't clear.

What I meant was is there any difference in usage - i.e. when would you use one or the other depending on the circumstances, or do they have identical meaning and it's a personal preference?

[Peter Thomsen]

They have identical meaning, and it's a personal preference.

If I were you, I would consider a player who is sight-reading in rehearsal.

Which layout is least likely to trip a player up in rehearsal?

[peterqd]

Which layout is least likely to trip a player up in rehearsal?

Yes, very good advice. I'm going with 7/4 with the (3+4 sempre) indication above, as you suggested.
I found this in my library which confirms your suggestion. I think this is the best way to do it.
Thanks Peter