Prevent shape expression metatools storing used items

[Anders Hedelin]

In a score I'm working on I had to create a metatool for a shape expression, a symbol which I couldn't create with another tool, and which occurs a couple of thousands (!) times in the score.

The score isn't extremely large in itself, "just" 126 pages and 15 players, but it's extremely filled up with details, and now I wonder if it might reach the limit of what Finale can process. (This actually has happened to me before, and I'm not keen on experiencing it again. Ever.)

From what I recall, Finale saves every occurence of a shape expression placed with a metatool, as "a new expression". The reason should be that it enables an individualisation of each sample. Now, is it possible to turn that off to save memory space?

(Obviously I looked in the manual, but didn't find anything.)

[Peter Thomsen]

… is it possible to turn that off to save memory space? …

If I understand you correctly, you are talking about expressions already entered in the Finale document - right?

This is a well known problem.

To prevent that it happens again with new shape expressions, do not enter them via a metatool.
Instead, enter them via the Expression Selection.
If you use a custom expression category, it will not take much longer than using a metatool.

There is a way to fix the shape expressions already entered in the document, but it takes some time - since you have to eliminate the duplicate shapes one at a time:

Go to the Shape Selection.
Here you can see all the duplicate copies of the shape.

Click a duplicate shape, to select it.
Then click the button Delete.
Finale will warn you that the shape is in use, and offer you the option of replacing the shape with another shape.
Obviously you want to replace it with the very first copy of the shape.

Repeat these steps for each duplicate copy of the shape.

[Anders Hedelin]

To prevent that it happens again with new shape expressions, do not enter them via a metatool.
Instead, enter them via the Expression Selection.
If you use a custom expression category, it will not take much longer than using a metatool.

Thanks for your reply, Peter.
Could you elaborate a little on that?
I chose using a metatool because I didn't want to open a window and choosing from that. It might seem a small thing, if it weren't for the absurd amount of the shapes I need to enter. Or, did I misunderstand you?

There is a way to fix the shape expressions already entered in the document, but it takes some time - since you have to eliminate the duplicate shapes one at a time:

Go to the Shape Selection.
Here you can see all the duplicate copies of the shape.

Click a duplicate shape, to select it.
Then click the button Delete.
Finale will warn you that the shape is in use, and offer you the option of replacing the shape with another shape.
Obviously you want to replace it with the very first copy of the shape.

Repeat these steps for each duplicate copy of the shape.

Well, I did exactly that, because I found that I wanted to change something in the metatool shape already entered a couple of hundreds times. I took me 1-2 hours.

[Peter Thomsen]

… Thanks for your reply, Peter.
Could you elaborate a little on that? …

You can create a custom expression category by duplicating an already existing category.

There are several types of expression categories, some with Score Lists (e. g. the Tempo Mark category), some without Score Lists (e. g. the Dynamics category).

I could be wrong, but my guess is that you, for your shape expression, need a “non Score List” category, like e. g. a duplicate copy of the Dynamics category.
You can customize your new category, with settings for Fonts and Positioning.
You can move expressions to your new category, and when you have moved them, you can reset them to the Font or Positioning settings of the new category.

If your shape expression is the only expression in your new expression category, then you can get to your shape expression very fast via the Expression Selection.
Once you can see the expression in the Expression Selection, and the expression is selected, just hit the Return key.

[motet]

When you've had problems with too-big files in the past, was it related to smart shapes? There is the frame limit of 32,767. If the smart shapes are not really the problem, it may not be worth the considerable time it takes to remedy it.

[Anders Hedelin]

If your shape expression is the only expression in your new expression category, then you can get to your shape expression very fast via the Expression Selection.
Once you can see the expression in the Expression Selection, and the expression is selected, just hit the Return key.

Thanks again.
I already create new expression categories when needed. So, the steps in your suggested method is: place the intended shape expression in a category of its own, and when double-clicking for expression entry, choose that category and press return?
I certainly will try that. Admittedly I would need a few of these special categories, but that seems workable.

[Anders Hedelin]

When you've had problems with too-big files in the past, was it related to smart shapes? There is the frame limit of 32,767. If the smart shapes are not really the problem, it may not be worth the considerable time it takes to remedy it.

I'm not sure that I follow you. What do you refer to with 'smart shapes'? That isn't what I'm having issues with.

When I had a Finale break down, I think it was another matter, although related to overburdening the memory of Finale. It was too large a file for a start. A colleague of mine presented me with a score of a full scale opera, divided, not into acts, but into scenes. From this I was expected to do the parts. I started with combining the small files into larger ones, by copying the music from the one to the other. (The "merge files" didn't work, because my colleague hadn't thought of keeping the instruments/vocal parts the same throughout.)

Finale "broke down" and refused to copy further, and there I found myself with a large opera orchestra waiting. I phoned MM (still possible at that time) and had my first inkling of thrashing the preferences. I'm not asking for fixes like that this time, just for a decent, and hopefully safe workflow.

[motet]

I see.

I guess the way it should work is that it should only make a duplicate when you alter it.

[Peter Thomsen]

… I guess the way it should work is that it should only make a duplicate when you alter it.

Yes.

Except when you need to alter all the occurrences of the shape expression “at one fell swoop”.

Somehow you should be able to tell Finale that …
“In this particular case I prefer to duplicate the shape - so that my edits will not affect other instances of the expression”.

[motet]

I'm curious to know what MakeMusic's (or Coda's, I guess) thinking was for this design. I thought the duplication was so that if you horizontally stretched it, only one would stretch. That seems analogous to stretching a hairpin, which does not alter them all. There's always the Duplicate button in the Expression Selection dialog.

It seems like applying an expression with a metatool should just be a shortcut for clicking and picking from a menu, but otherwise equal.

I think they could change it to only duplicate behind the scenes if you stretched it, which would be upwardly compatible but avoid Anders's memory-wasting conundrum.