Finale Forum

I decided to change the regular G clef to the one with the octave "8" attached to the bottom. My score was understandably transposed an octave higher, since the guitar sounds an octave lower than written (I forgot to create a custom template for the guitar, one that shows the 8 under the clef).

I transposed the score back down an octave, so that the notes appear back inside the stave. But now the playback sounds an octave lower than the instrument.

Is it possible to raise the playback pitch one octave without transposing the notes?

Yes, it's possible.

There are two ways:

1) Edit - in the Clef Designer - the "guitar clef" so that it uses the "standard G clef symbol" instead of the "G clef symbol with the '8' attached to the bottom".
To enter the "standard G clef symbol", type '&' (= the ampersand character).
(To get to the Clef Designer, go to Document Options - Clefs, and click the button "Clef Designer...")

2) Use the Staff Tool to give the staff an octave transposition.

Hi Peter,

I don't have the experience or IQ to follow option #1. So I tried the second option you kindly offer, using the Staff Tool. Below are the steps I tried without success. Perhaps you can tell me which step I may change to raise the playback pitch by one octave, while keeping the basso ottava G-clef (G-clef with "8" attached to the bottom).

1. Staff Tool (upper icon menu) -> double-click on outer-most
handle.
2. Check "Transposition" (default is checked) -> Select.
3. Select "Key Signature" -> The following settings are an
example for raising the playback pitch one octave.

- Key Signature: Up Octave
- Simplify Key: Unchecked
- Interval: 7
- Key Alter: 0
- Chromatic: Unchecked (option to "Key Signature")
- Set to clef: Unchecked.

4. OK -> OK.

Djard wrote:I decided to change the regular G clef to the one with the octave "8" attached to the bottom. My score was understandably transposed an octave higher, since the guitar sounds an octave lower than written (I forgot to create a custom template for the guitar, one that shows the 8 under the clef).

I transposed the score back down an octave, so that the notes appear back inside the stave. But now the playback sounds an octave lower than the instrument.

Is it possible to raise the playback pitch one octave without transposing the notes?

Hi Djard,

I'm so sorry.
I misread your question.
No wonder that my first reply didn't make sense to you!

If I understand you correctly, your (physical) guitar sounds an octave lower than written, but you want the computer's playback instrument to sound an octave higher than your (physical) guitar (= sounding as written, rather than an octave lower than written).
Perhaps you are practising your (physical) guitar while the computer plays back, and want to hear both your (physical) guitar and the computer's playback instrument clearly, hence the need for an octave distance between physical play and cumputer playback.

The attached document shows both solutions.

Hello Peter,

I'll do my best to clarify the issue I have.

1. I used a regular G-clef to write my score for guitar. Since I selected "Accoustic guitar" in the Doc Setup Wizard, I figured there was no need to indicate that the music for guitar is customarily written an octave higher than it actually sounds--i.e., I didn't use the octaved G-clef.

2. After finishing the composition, I decided to follow the convention of using the G-clef with the "8" attached to the bottom of the clef. This caused all the notes in the score to be raised an octave. Whoa!

3. After unsuccessfully trying different ways to transpose the score down an octave but keep the G-clef with the "8" under it, I gave up and reverted back to the regular clef.

So my wish is to change the G-clef to G-clef with the "8" under to to indicate the music is written for guitar (one octave higher than it actually sounds).

My other question is now no longer strictly concerned with the above. I'd just like to know how I might be able to save my preferences--such as using "Latin" style in the Human playback, custom dynamic marks, etc.--so that next time I start writing a tune, I won't need to go through all the steps to configure my preferences (Finale by default does not save custom articulationas, expressions, playback settings, etc.). Clicking on "File" -> "Save Preferences" does not save such preferences: I don't know what that does.

I hope I have given you a clearer picture of my needs. Thanks.

Guitar music is written with the standard G Treble Clef, not the G8 Clef. Just go back to the G clef and you'll be correct.

Djard wrote: 2. After finishing the composition, I decided to follow the convention of using the G-clef with the "8" attached to the bottom of the clef. This caused all the notes in the score to be raised an octave. Whoa!

3. After unsuccessfully trying different ways to transpose the score down an octave but keep the G-clef with the "8" under it, I gave up and reverted back to the regular clef.

All you have to do is select the score, and hit numpad 8 to drop everything an octave.

The use of the "8" key worked nicely. Thanks.

Warren, my publisher, J. Albert & Son, the largest and oldest music publisher in Australia, would respectfully disagree with you about omitting the 8 under the G-clef. But you are correct in your statement. Publishers of guitar music today generally ignore the "8." Technically, though, the omission of the "8" is incorrect, since music for the guitar is necessarily written an octave above from where it sounds; since it can't make full use of the bass clef. The guitar indeed sounds an octave lower than from where it is written. I guess I'm just old-fashioned, since you do make a good point.

I disagree. Any instrument that uses a standard method of notation does not add "8" or anything else to its clef. For example a saxaphone uses a treble clef, no matter whether the instrument is a sopranino or a contrabass saxaphone.

Also, a Bass Violin is written an octave higher than the clef implies.

You could use the clef with the 8 in the concert score, associated with a transposition 1 octave up and then, have the transposed clef set to a "normal" treble clef.
This way the concert score woud give you what you want, and the transposed score and the parts would respect the conventions (normal ttreble clef).

I learned that even my publisher no longer adheres to the old convention of placing an 8 under the G-clef for guitar notation--to correctly indicate that the notes should sound an octave lower than written--so I think I'll go with the flow and ignore it myself.

An old friend who teaches classical guitar at a music conservatorium at a university states that the convention of using the "octave G-clef" is pretty much ignored today, aven among the best publishers. However, a writer's request to add the "8" is usually granted.

Just as some correct grammar--for example avoiding ending a sentence with a preposition--now sounds odd; so the use of the octave G-clef for guitar seems to appear odd. I'm not sure if we are progessing or degenerating here. What would the likes of Bach and Beethoven say?

I have never in my life seen guitar music with the G clef +8, and I have played guitar for 45 years. Now, in all honesty, I haven't studied Andre Segovia's works, so I am not sure whether or not he added the 8s to his clefs, but guitar music published up to 75 years ago in North America has never had an 8 added to a G clef. (I will qualify that with "that I have ever seen")

Hi Warren,

I believe you: the octave G-clef is rare, even in classical guitar music. But Finale does offer it in its "Clef-selection" window, perhaps not merely for transposition as the inclusion in guitar notation is technically correct. Attached is an example of its use in one of my pieces. The chief editor at J. Albert & Son was himself a former concert pianist and professor of music. I doubt we will see the octave G-clef appear in any but the most formal publication for guitar.

Warren Barnett wrote:I have never in my life seen guitar music with the G clef +8, and I have played guitar for 45 years. Now, in all honesty, I haven't studied Andre Segovia's works, so I am not sure whether or not he added the 8s to his clefs, but guitar music published up to 75 years ago in North America has never had an 8 added to a G clef. (I will qualify that with "that I have ever seen")

That is where the term 'experimental' comes in to place. All though it isn't common, at least we have the option. it kind of reminds me of my experiment when I hooked up a couple of <a href="http://www.klipsch.com/home-theater-systems">home theater systems</a> to my computer audio and decided they would make a nice studio.

To come back to the original question, I don't think anyone mentioned this solution :

Create an expression (leave it blank or use a hidden style for the text)
Playback thumbnail -> Type : Transposition.
Enter +12 to hear the music an octave higher than what's written.
Place it in the score.

Thanks, I'm very grateful for that.

Hi you can transpose the playback on menu: WINDOW>SCORE MANAGER. Choose the proper instrument (Acoustic Guitar). In Transposition field you can change according your taste. If you using a VST as AGrritan, Configuring to acoustic Guitar in Garritan, generally it is done automatically. Because the sampling is one octave below. With a MIDI thi procedure must work as well choosing the interval of one octave down. The G clef will not change to G-clef 8.