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Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

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Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

Postby spasmo » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:05 pm

I am working with Finale 2012. When I complete a score, I make a MIDI file of it. This time there is a tempo change in the score.

Problems:

When I specify Play Finale Through VST, I only get a piano sound, not the saxophone sounds in the Score Manager.
But when I switch to Play Finale Through MIDI, I get the sax sounds, but it ignores the tempos I set with Expressions. Instead it uses the original tempo set up with the Wizard for the entire piece.
The working document works fine either way.

Hope you can help.
spasmo
 
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Re: Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

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Re: Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

Postby zuill » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:31 pm

We might need to see the file to be of help, so we can see what you are seeing, plus other things that might be there you might not be aware of. Maybe there is an erroneous tempo expression, or maybe some MIDI tempo data.

Zuill
Windows 7, Finale 2011-v25.4.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
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Re: Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

Postby spasmo » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:01 pm

I am attaching the file. Thanks for looking at it. But don't forget that the problem is not with playback, it is with MIDI files which I make from this file by "Save As".
Attachments
Serenade No. 10 K361 Allegro molto Score sax parts only in F V2.mus
(136.09 KiB) Downloaded 13 times
spasmo
 
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Re: Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

Postby zuill » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:21 pm

You have a starting tempo of Largo at 36, a fermata, then a tempo of 160. Finale renders the Largo as 160, which is the tempo in the playback slot. it then renders the slow down and fermata, and then jumps to 160.

So, it does everything you told it to except the starting tempo. One thing you can do is to set the playback tempo in the slot to 36, but that doesn't wok perfectly well either.

Turning off HP doesn't work that well either, as it ignores the fermata. The best way to get what you want is to disable the playback programming of the tempo marks and set the exact MIDI tempos with the MIDI Tool.

As far as the sounds, I get saxes either way (VST or MIDI).

Zuill
Windows 7, Finale 2011-v25.4.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
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Re: Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

Postby spasmo » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:22 pm

Thanks for the help. I got (sort of) what I wanted by disabling playback of Largo, setting the tempo with the MIDI tool, and using Play through MIDI. I had HP turned off but I don't know whether that made a difference. The result will do for my purpose.

I like the sound better using Play through VST, but once again I got the piano sound that way...I'm attaching that MIDI file in hopes you can figure out why...oops, the forum won't allow me to attach a mid extension. You already have the mus file, can you think about it?

Thanks again!
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Posts: 5
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Re: Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

Postby zuill » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:25 am

I remembered something about the Tempo issue that I believe I even reported to MakeMusic at one time. If you keep the file as is, but change the Score list to include All Staves for Parts, the exported MIDI file tempo should reflect the notated Tempo indications, as performed by HP.

I'm glad I remembered this workaround. Give it a try and see what happens.

Zuill

P.S.: Try this revised version of your file for the MIDI export tempo issue. The changes in the MIDI file should reflect the changes in the original file.
Attachments
Serenade No. 10 K361 Allegro molto Score sax parts only in F V2 Revised.mus
(136.14 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
Windows 7, Finale 2011-v25.4.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
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zuill
 
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Re: Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

Postby zuill » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:47 am

Back to the original post, the tempo issue should not be an issue with my workaround.

Regarding sounds, as long as HP is on, using MIDI should not matter. MIDI files can't access the Garritan sounds anyway, so using MIDI should work. When I set it to MIDI with HP on, with my tempo workaround, I get the correct Tempos and expressions, and, when the MIDI file is loaded back into Finale, the correct sounds are chosen for Garritan. So, I think using the Score List workaround, with MIDI and HP, you should get everything working correctly.

Zuill
Windows 7, Finale 2011-v25.4.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
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Re: Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

Postby spasmo » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:20 pm

I would like to try your workaround, but I haven't found the "Score list" you referred to. Lead me to it, I'll let you know how it comes out, and then I'll leave you alone for awhile...until the next problem. I have been using Finale since Version 3.5, but I guess I haven't advanced quite as fast as the program.

Thanks.
spasmo
 
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Re: Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

Postby zuill » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:39 pm

In the Category Designer for Expressions, choose the Tempo Marks category. There, there is a slot near the bottom of the window. Score List 1 is the default. I edited that to include All Staves for parts. That workaround also solves another problem where swing playback only works on the top staff when in the score.

This workaround for the other problem is known by MakeMusic. However, I can't recall that this MIDI export workaround is known by them It seems I have had discourse with them in the past, but now I don't recall if that is accurate. Either way, it should work for you.

Zuill
Windows 7, Finale 2011-v25.4.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
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Re: Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

Postby spasmo » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:12 pm

I tried it, and it works fine.

But only if I specify play finale through MIDI. If I'm using VST, I still get the piano sound. It doesn't matter; I can get my MIDI files whether I understand it or not.

Thanks very much!
spasmo
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 10:00 pm
Finale Version: PC 2012

Re: Sounds and Tempos in MIDI files

Postby zuill » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:44 pm

I have modified the document to get the right tempo and also produce the right sound. I've attached the MIDI file first, but I had to change the extension to .mus to get it to upload. Change the extension to .mid after downloading. Again, the MIDI file is the top file. The Finale file is second.

Zuill

P.S.: I forgot to mention that the Score Manager might show Piano for the sounds when importing the MIDI file into Finale, but the Patch information has been stored in the file via the MIDI Tool, so it will still play the saxes.
Attachments
Serenade No. 10 K361 Allegro molto Score sax parts only in F V2 Sounds and Tempo.mus
(44.49 KiB) Downloaded 13 times
Serenade No. 10 K361 Allegro molto Score sax parts only in F V2 Sounds and Tempo.mus
(138.24 KiB) Downloaded 11 times
Windows 7, Finale 2011-v25.4.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
User avatar
zuill
 
Posts: 1066
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Location: Southern California
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v25.4.1
Operating System: Windows



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