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Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

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Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby Djard » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:08 am

I assigned rall. to a part in my score. It plays back correctly. I assign the same expression later in the score and Finale ignores the tempo alteration. After resigning to the fact that any one of the countless bugs in Finale is going to surface if I write music beyond elementary level, I discovered that I can get around the problem by duplicating an unused rit., changing the name to rall. and then entering it into the score. So each time I need to enter a rall., I must make another duplicate of the rit. and call it rall.

Nothing in Document Options, Preferences or HP that I can see that appears amiss. And I did clear all expressions, articulations as well as the MIDI data in the measure then re-wrote the notation. Any idea why playback of tempo alterations fails if I use the expression more than once?
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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby oldmkvi » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:15 pm

I don't have any of your problems with Finale 25.
It's good to know it's because my Music is too Elementary.
Thanks.
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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby motet » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:24 pm

Before proclaiming a bug, attach your file. Something else may be going on.
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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby zuill » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:45 pm

Normally, in 2012, the same expression can be used more than once and get the same playback effect. In the attached document, the rall. works both times.

So, the problem is not with Finale itself, but with something in the file that is interfering with the rall. expression.

Zuill
Attachments
Rallentando Demo.mus
(41.47 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
Windows 7, Finale 2011-v25.5
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby Djard » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:27 pm

I regard Finale modifying tempo alterations without me making any changes to the settings as a bug. Attached is the score. I left the stubbornly imposed reverb on as it only comes back, despite saving the document with it set to fully dry (another bug, which I am learning to tolerate).

When I write music for orchestral instruments that is not individually polyphonic or contains many expressions, lines, shapes and articulations, Finale behaves itself quite well. The problems I experience are only elicited by complex notation.

I hope someone can help me solve the riddle of why a rall. and rit. cannot be used more than once in this piece. Thank you all in advance for your patience.
Attachments
Romance en Aranjuez (Gerárdo).mus
(149.24 KiB) Downloaded 6 times
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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby zuill » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:56 pm

Okay, I see that you have 2 rall. expressions. One is set to playback shape 0, and the other to shape 6. If you want 2 different playback effects, that's one way to do it. So, one does need to have 2 different shapes for 2 different playback effects.

So, what is the need? Or am I misunderstanding the problem?

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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby motet » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:58 pm

If you use the first rall again, it doesn't rall.
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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby zuill » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:30 pm

That's because the shapes use an old convoluted system that is interacting with the HP method, and because the starting and stopping tempos are different.

If you create a rall. without a shape definition, and let HP do its own thing, then the rall. works about the same in both spots.

If I wanted precise control, I would avoid the archaic shape playback method, and enter the exact MIDI data.

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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby Djard » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:14 pm

I duplicated a functional rall. but playback failed when used used as a copy. Hm.

Riten. works; but if I enter it and rename is as rall., playback of tempo alteration fails. So just renaming the expression disables playback. Finale is soooo flaky. If the next version is more stable, I will definitely upgrade. Since only rarely do I experience problems when writing for orchestra, I am convinced version 2012c is not for classical guitarists.

To avoid losing more time, I resolved my problem by using the tempo tap tool and adding rall. as text.
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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby zuill » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:29 am

I am guessing that we use different settings for the rall. I got the same one to work in multiple places. So, each user gets different results because each user defines the rall differently. I don't think updating to a newer version will make a difference, as the same approach will yield the same result. So you're probably better off sticking with 2012. Apply what would be the upgrade price to a nice night out at a fancy restaurant. Finale works much the same way in v25 as it did in 2012 when it comes to HP playback.

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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby Djard » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:38 am

I can repeatedly insert a tempo alteration, like rall. or rit. in other documents. The problem I describe occurs mainly in this one document that has a lot of tempo shifts. It seems that the more complex the notation, the more likely Finale is to manifest a problem. I'm at the point where I look forward to writing for any instrument but guitar.

Maybe I can find an affordable musical amenuensis, but an apéritif du caviar Belugan and dinner of roast pheasant alla fiorentina, washed down with a glass of Chateau Mouton Rothschild 1945, would be a fair substitute. Would truffes au chocolat noir and coffee from the finest Colombian Arabica beans offer a perfect cadence to the dinner?
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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby David Ward » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:43 am

Djard wrote:… … but an apéritif du caviar Belugan and dinner of roast pheasant alla fiorentina, washed down with a glass of Chateau Mouton Rothschild 1945, would be a fair substitute. Would truffes au chocolat noir and coffee from the finest Colombian Arabica beans offer a perfect cadence to the dinner?
Sounds like the sort of dinner that I used to be taken out to by a very grand kinsman in my long ago student days…
Finale 25.5
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Re: Cannot use a tempo alteration more than once

Postby Djard » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:52 pm

No doubt his wallet was a lot lighter after the sumptuous meal...at least the cost of Finale, version 35 that will still not be friendly toward scoring classical guitar.
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