Finale Forum

Finale 2012c, rev. 13
Windows 10

I have created a percussion layout for VST playback that uses, among other things, crash cymbals (pos. 11, Crash Cymbals Crash), suspended cymbal (pos. 9, Suspended Cymbal w/ Mallet (Loud), Suspended Cymbal Roll) and tambourine (pos.8, Tambourine and Tambourine Shake). The best I can estimate (as I have not figured out how to test sounds within the Percussion Layout Designer window, if such a thing is possible), the crash cymbals sound like a suspended cymbal and the tambourine sounds like a suspended cymbal hit with a mallet (or possibly a choked crash cymbals).

The layout also uses two toms: High Tom (pos. 5, High Tom) and Low Tom (pos. 4, Low Tom). These do not play at all. When I have assigned my custom layout to a percussion staff, tom parts are "greyed out", as out-of-range notes are. When I assign the Percussion layout and move the noteheads to the proper staff positions, the tom notes appear normal, but still do not play back.

Although my sound list tantalizes me with exotic options, it appears through experimentation that I have no Tom/Tenor Drum, Auxiliary or Industrial sounds at all. I have tried to hear them by flipping layers, by using the Percussion layout (which includes various toms) and by changing the Percussion MIDI Map setting in ScoreManager from GIfF/Basic Orchestral Percussion to GIfF/Marching Percussion. (There is no custom option.)

[Edited to add: Another odd outcome of my attempts to get these instruments to play back properly is that various percussion lines would be arbitrarily moved up or down by an "octave" or two-- that is, they would suddenly appear several ledger lines above or below the (unpitched) percussion staff. I can't imagine how this might be related, but that won't keep me from suspecting that it is.]

I would really like to be able to play back the percussion parts I write, and which the software tells me are available-- up to a point. Do I need to reinstall Garritan Sounds? Do I need to buy the not-overly-exotic sounds I am apparently supposed to have? Tambourines and tom-toms seem basic to me, but then I came up through a fairly well-to-do band program.

Thank you.


DF

If you are using GIfF, the set is a limited version of the full GPO. So, even though many sounds are listed in the maps and layouts, many of the sounds are just not available.

Zuill

Those xxxxxxx. Perhaps the xxxxxxx also explains the substitution of suspended cymbal for tambourine.

Thank you for your prompt reply.

(Text edited by moderator.)

As far as testing sounds, first know what MIDI numbers are assigned to each sound. Then, in the VST window, there is a keyboard at the bottom. With the mouse, press the key associated with that MIDI number to hear each sound.

Zuill

What is "the VST window"? I have never seen a window with a keyboard in it, and I can find nothing about such a thing in the user manual. The only window I've seen that pertains to VST is the VST Banks and Effects window, which has no keyboard.

I suppose I should undertake to not cause the moderator to b@s+a℞dize-- excuse me: bowdlerize-- my comments henceforward.

Thanks again.

Edited to add: Are you related to the cellist? And did your comment counter zero out at 10,000?

There should be a piano keyboard at the bottom of the main window. When you select a particular slot, the available pitches in that sample should highlight in white.

Zuill Bailey, we believe, is a distant relation, as far as we know, but I don't have any specific documentation. he and I have gotten to be friends over the years.

I'm not sure what you mean by the counter zeroing out at 10,000.

Zuill

"There should be a piano keyboard at the bottom of the main window."
I don't know what you mean by "the main window". I have never seen a keyboard in any window in Finale other than the tiny vertical keyboard in the MIDI Tool window, which is irrelevant as I don't use MIDI. My main Finale window has four layer selection buttons (which I wish were on the Main Tool Palette so I could float them to a more convenient location), a page selection control, and a horizontal scroll bar. Again, I cannot find any information about such a keyboard in the user manual, or any hint as to how to cause one to appear in the menus of the software itself. The only VST window I can find is the Banks and Effects window.

My relevant MIDI/Audio settings are
Play Finale through VST
Human Playback --> Standard (which, as I understand it, is necessary)
Device Setup --> MIDI Through

For my purposes, the most useful place for a sound sampler would be at the dropdown menu for instrument selection in the ScoreManager window. That's where I most need to know the differences among, say, the sounds for each brass instrument. Even a reduced keyboard with, say six different octaves of C would suffice for comparing tone quality and volume.

I am using Finale 2012c, rev 13. Have I missed an update (as opposed to an upgrade)? My lovely wife prefers to not upgrade Finale any further, as she finds it hard enough to use already and has found each of our upgrades to be more confusing than the previous version-- with the important note that while she finds it harder to use each time, it does work better than it did in 1996. (Mistakes happen much faster now.)

I read in my Googlestalk that you (or perhaps an an earlier Zuill) approached 10,000 comments in 2009, and there was speculation as to whether the forum software would accommodate a five-digit number in the counter. Given the spelling, I'm not surprised to find that you are not a deity living in a refrigerator. Is the name a variant of Sewell?

Thank you.

I've attached a screen shot of the VST Viewer Window that has the piano keyboard at the bottom. It's a big picture, so you'll have to scroll down to the bottom of the image to see the keyboard.

As far as the post count, that was the old MakeMusic forum. By the time it closed down (you can still view it), I had over 29,000 posts.

Zuill

Ah-- you're talking about ARIA Player. I thought you were trying to direct me to something within Finale. Now that I know how to search for what I was looking for, I've found the information in the user manual.

Thank you, thank you, and thank you.

You can access this in Finale. In the MIDI/Audio menu, click on VST Banks and Effects. Then click on the little pencil icon to the right of the bank that has the sound you are wanting to edit or explore.

Zuill

For further clarification, when you open it within Finale, in the upper left hand corner, it says VST Viewer. When opening the stand-alone player, it says Garritan Aria Player in the upper left hand corner.

Zuill

zuill wrote:You can access this in Finale. In the MIDI/Audio menu, click on VST Banks and Effects. Then click on the little pencil icon to the right of the bank that has the sound you are wanting to edit or explore.

I had looked at that window, as the menu refers to VST and that's what I was looking for. The little pencil buttons are hard (for me) to see, and mousing over them doesn't provide an explanatory label. A more obvious connection between that feature and the instrument dropdown menus in the ScoreManager window would be useful, particularly as the ScoreManager is where scoring is done.

Thank you.

There is a way from the Score Manager. From the Device column drop-down menu choose Aria Player. Then, in the Sound column click Edit Player.

Zuill

Moderator posted: "If you are using GIfF, the set is a limited version of the full GPO. So, even though many sounds are listed in the maps and layouts, many of the sounds are just not available."

I, too, wish to use words that contain only Xs when I reply to this. LOL! But instead let me ask WHY Finale would list so many tantalizing percussion patches but not be able to play them back? Are those samples available in Finale at ANY PRICE?

By the way, I also run into a lot of limitations with cymbal swells chokes and releases. It is often very (too) challenging to get playbacks to sound as envisioned.