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Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:47 pm
by CantoPed
Running Finale 27 on a 2020 MacBook Air.
I'm attempting to write a piece with swung 16th notes, and am using this article as a guide:
https://www.finalemusic.com/blog/swing- ... in-finale/
I initially followed the instructions on changing the visuals, before looking at any of the playback instructions. So I did the playback steps after doing the visual steps. When I tried to play the piece, it swung the 8ths instead of the 16ths. What am I doing wrong here? Do I need to start over again and do the playback stuff first?
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:16 pm
by motet
It would be best if you could attach your file here, at least the first few measures with the tempo mark (which I'm guessing is the culprit).
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:23 am
by miker
Is it a multistaff piece? I’ll never understand why a “swing” tempo has to be applied to each staff. If you don’t, only the top staff will swing.
(Please someone, tell me I’ve been doing it wrong all these years, and I don’t have to put the expression on every staff. Yes, I know I can hide them.)
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 6:30 am
by Peter Thomsen
miker wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:23 am
… (Please someone, tell me I’ve been doing it wrong all these years, and I don’t have to put the expression on every staff. Yes, I know I can hide them.)
There is a way to make the score play back Swing in all the staves, without displaying the Swing expression on each and every staff in the score:
In the Score List, select all the staves in the column for Parts.
Yes, I know.
It sounds crazy that a setting for the
Parts would affect the playback of the
Score.
Just One Of Those Things.
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 4:51 pm
by oldmkvi
I've had tunes that needed Swing on some staves but not on others.
I assume the Parts will say Swing Feel,
how else would the players know?
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:54 pm
by CantoPed
I don't even know how to get to the score list.
Here's my file.
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 8:05 pm
by Peter Thomsen
CantoPed wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 7:54 pm
I don't even know how to get to the score list …
Generally, to find a particular dialog box in Finale (like e. g. the dialog box Score Lists), use the online manual, and type the dialog box name in the Search field.
To get to the dialog box Score Lists:
Document menu > Category Designer
Click on the Tempo Marks category, to select it.
When
the Tempo Marks category is selected, you will at the bottom of the Category Designer see Score List
(if the Dynamics category is selected, then you will not see Score List)
Then, click on the button {Edit…}, to edit the Score List, or to create a new Score List.
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 4:40 pm
by CantoPed
Ok, I checked all the items in the score list, but it's still swinging 8ths instead of 16ths.
What exactly do I need to do here?
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:15 pm
by motet
motet wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:16 pm
It would be best if you could attach your file here, at least the first few measures with the tempo mark (which I'm guessing is the culprit).
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:22 pm
by CantoPed
motet wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:15 pm
motet wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:16 pm
It would be best if you could attach your file here, at least the first few measures with the tempo mark (which I'm guessing is the culprit).
I already did, see above
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:27 am
by motet
Oh, sorry.
Set the time signature to 8/8, displayed as 4/4, not (2+2+2+2)/8 like you have. You'll need a second expression to set the tempo.
You may have to use Utilities/Rebeam/Rebeam to time signature (4/4) after you've entered the notes, to get the beaming you want.
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:16 am
by CantoPed
motet wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:27 am
Oh, sorry.
Set the time signature to 8/8, displayed as 4/4, not (2+2+2+2)/8 like you have. You'll need a second expression to set the tempo.
You may have to use Utilities/Rebeam/Rebeam to time signature (4/4) after you've entered the notes, to get the beaming you want.
Ok, that resolved most of my issues. The only thing left seems to be that the slash notation is showing 8 beats per bar instead of 4. Any way to fix that?
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:19 am
by CantoPed
Actually, there's another issue too - the notes aren't beamed properly. This might be why the Finale guide I mentioned in the OP was telling me to do the 2+2+2+2/8.
Is there any way to have both the proper swing 16th playback and the correct beaming? I don't really mind switching between the two (realistically the only time I'll have to switch is once I'm done writing and need to print the score and parts) but it'd still be a pain.
EDIT: I can still use the / to join the beams, so I guess it's not so bad. Still it'd be good to know.
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 3:11 am
by motet
motet wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 12:27 am
You may have to use Utilities/Rebeam/Rebeam to time signature (4/4) after you've entered the notes, to get the beaming you want.
Easier than the / key, I think.
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 3:28 am
by motet
The only solution I can think of for the slash notation is to use rhythmic notation--which means you need to enter quarter notes--and then hide the stems. I guess you'd want to suppress playback, too. JW Change can accomplish both. If you do one measure you can copy it elsewhere.
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 3:32 am
by motet
I've reported the erroneous advice of (2+2+2+2)/8 to the author of that page.
Of course it's ridiculous that what values to swing depend on the time signature. It should be a separate setting.
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:10 am
by Peter Thomsen
Quoting from an older forum post:
“You can create a workaround for this by changing the time signature to 8/8 to look as 4/4.
With the 8th note as the unit of beat, 16ths will swing.
The only drawback to this plan is if you have measures with slash notation.
They will now have 8 slashes instead of 4.
Creating a staff style for "Slash Notation with Independent Time Signature" allows you to change those measures or staves to 4/4 and get the standard 4 slashes needed.
If you have 16th note swing in the measure hidden by the slashes, then changing to 4/4 doesn't help.”
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2023 7:29 pm
by CantoPed
Peter Thomsen wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:10 am
Quoting from an older forum post:
“You can create a workaround for this by changing the time signature to 8/8 to look as 4/4.
With the 8th note as the unit of beat, 16ths will swing.
The only drawback to this plan is if you have measures with slash notation.
They will now have 8 slashes instead of 4.
Creating a staff style for "Slash Notation with Independent Time Signature" allows you to change those measures or staves to 4/4 and get the standard 4 slashes needed.
If you have 16th note swing in the measure hidden by the slashes, then changing to 4/4 doesn't help.”
Good to know, but how does the new staff style work on a step by step basis? All I can find is the Independent Elements section - not sure how it all works from there.
Re: Swing 16ths not working
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:35 am
by michelp
Or... in the staff attributes of the staff that needs the 4 slashes, next to Independent Elements, select Time Signature.
When slashes are needed (4 of them), select the region in that staff and change its time signature to 4/4. Apply the slash notation.