Mid-Score Percussion Instrument Changes

[kvochkocar]

Hi,

Four percussionist in my orchestra piece are changing instruments throughout the piece. Each percussionist is assigned one stave playing multiple instruments. Therefore, the instrument changes should occur on each stave. Non-pitched percussion instruments are written on the third line (B1). I should be bale to change different instruments all assigned to the third line notes.

I tried Utilities -> Change Instrument... It didn't work.
I tried assigning a patch change to the Expression Tool made percussion name. It didn't work.
I took a look in the Percussion Midi Maps & Percussion Layout Designer but got stuck.

Is there a simple way to do this? If not, is there a simple enough resource on the net someone can direct me to so I can learn how to do this?

Thanks a lot!

[motet]

Not "Change instrument." You need to set up your own percussion layout for each player, where you can assign all instruments to the middle line. How are you inputting music? With the mouse, you move the cursor up- and down-arrows to cycle between instruments. If you're using MIDI or QWERTY input, you would probably want to set up a percussion input map to map each instrument to a given input "pitch."

[kvochkocar]

Thanks for the reply, motet!

I'm still confused though. I edited the percussion layout for the Percussionist 4 (see the attachment). He plays Bass Drum, Tam-Tam and Triangle. When I play the score I hear a Hand Clap which is Midi 71 in NotePerformer. How do I get the patches assigned to B1 to play and also, how do I switch between them?

By the way, I use MIDI keyboard input.

Thanks a lot!

[motet]

Your percussion layout looks fine. You switch by playing a different "note." Read what I wrote above again.

I don't know from Note Performer, but in the View menu, pick Show/Percussion MIDI values and see if they're what you expect. In the MIDI/Audio menu, pick Device Setup/Edit Percussion MIDI map and for MIDI Device pick "None (Built-in GM)."

[kvochkocar]

Thanks, motet!

I appreciate your willingness to help.

However, I'm still getting Hand Clap sound (midi 71) during the playback. In the Speedy Entry on the one line percussion stave, I get options to choose between the Bass Drum, Tam-Tam and Triangle but all I get is the Hand Clap sound.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. It seems to me it's something trivial however, I can't figure it out on my own. Any other hints, please?

Thank you.

[motet]

Did you do what I suggested in my last post?

[kvochkocar]

Yes, I integrated everything you wrote above.

The problem might be that I'm not setting up the percussion input map properly to map each instrument to a given input "pitch." However, I played around with this for many hours and read through Finale manual but still can't get this working.

Can you please lead me through this?

Thank you so much!

[motet]

You didn't report the result of this: In the View menu, pick Show/Percussion MIDI values and see if they're what you expect. In the MIDI/Audio menu, pick Device Setup/Edit Percussion MIDI map and for MIDI Device pick "None (Built-in GM)."

How are you inputting music?

[kvochkocar]

"In the View menu, pick Show/Percussion MIDI values and see if they're what you expect."
No. I'm not getting the expected values. For the layout on the photo above, I'm getting Hand Clap sound only. The value of 71.

"In the MIDI/Audio menu, pick Device Setup/Edit Percussion MIDI map and for MIDI Device pick "None (Built-in GM)."
Done.

"How are you inputting music?"
MIDI Keyboard using Speedy Entry Tool.

[motet]

If you want to enter MIDI 35, 48, and 81 for those notes, then you don't need an input map. Pick "Match input map to output map." An input map is if you want to use more convenient keys (e.g. middle C, C#, D) to input the three instruments, but get the rest of it working first.

What version of Finale do you have?

Are you saying that View menu, pick Show/Percussion MIDI values shows 71 one the score no matter what you input? What happens if, as a test, you input notes with the mouse?

I don't know how Note Performer works. What happens if you play back without Note Performer?

When you picket Current Percussion MIDI Map, what did you pick for MIDI Device?

What if you pick "None (built-in GM)" as "Current Percussion MIDI Map" in the Percussion layout designer?

Maybe you can attach a file here we can look at. Doesn't have to be your full piece, maybe just a one-staff file with your percussion set-up.

[kvochkocar]

Thank you for your support, motet.

The patch changes haven't work because I tried to apply the layouts to the notes inputed before setting the layout. Inputing the notes now when the layout is set properly makes everything work perfect. Does that mean I have to transcribe my percussion parts again in order to have them playback? I finished the piece. It would be a lot of hours invested in transcribing percussionists parts again. Is there a workaround?

"What version of Finale do you have?"
Finale 26

"Are you saying that View menu, pick Show/Percussion MIDI values shows 71 one the score no matter what you input? What happens if, as a test, you input notes with the mouse?"
All notes inputed after the layout is set are triggering wanted patches. The notes inputed before do not.

"I don't know how Note Performer works. What happens if you play back without Note Performer?"
It works properly with NotePerformer.

"When you picket Current Percussion MIDI Map, what did you pick for MIDI Device?"
NotePerformer

What if you pick "None (built-in GM)" as "Current Percussion MIDI Map" in the Percussion layout designer?
It works fine with both None and NotePerformer

Can you please tell me how to set up the playback correctly in the case when pitched and non-pitched percussion instruments are written on the single stave?

Thank you.

[motet]

I'm glad it's working. For the already-entered music, you maybe be able to use the Repitch subtool of Speedy entry, in which you would only need to play the proper pitches on your keyboard to replace what you've entered; it automatically leads you from note to note so should be quick.

It's possible to mix pitched and unpitched music on the same staff using staff styles or perhaps Change Instrument, but if you're using a one-line staff it would look odd to change from one line to five mid-system, I think. Instead, you might consider having two staves, one pitched and one unpitched. You can then hide whichever isn't being used at the time. This is simpler, but if you want the switch to happen mid-system, you'll need to go the staff style route. I personally haven't mixed pitched and unpitched.

[kvochkocar]

Thank you, motet!

Can you please direct me to more information about the Repitch subtool? I couldn't find any information about it on the internet.

It is completely fine to change back and forth between five-line and one-line staves in the percussion notation. I have looked into applying staff style, but I couldn't find a way to do it. Which option in the Define Staff Tool would trigger the change of the patch?

Thank you.

[motet]

The Repitch tool is described briefly in the manual under Simple Entry:

0573.png (9.88 KiB) Viewed 1033 times

The staff style for standard notation would look something like this, but I couldn't get it to display the key signature. Maybe someone else will know. Peter Thompsen?

0575.png (55.55 KiB) Viewed 1033 times

[Peter Thomsen]

… The staff style for standard notation would look something like this, but I couldn't get it to display the key signature. Maybe someone else will know. Peter Thompsen? …

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the Instrument List (and not a staff style) is responsible for the changes between the Notation Styles (= 1. Standard, 2. Percussion, 3. Tablature).
Where the Notation Style is {Percussion}, key signatures are not displayed.

If I understand the problem correctly, the topic here is change between pitched (= 5 staff-lines) and non-pitched (= 1 staff-line) percussion instruments in the very same staff - right?
Example:
Xylophone (pitched) and Clap (non-pitched) in the same staff.

This works for me:
Use the utility Change Instrument to change instrument in selected measures.

In Other Words:

Selection Tool.
Select the measures for Xylophone.
Use the Change Instrument Utility to change the selected measures to Xylophone.
If you look in the Instrument List, you will see that in the Xylophone measures the Notation Style is set to {Standard}.

Select the measures for Clap.
Use the Change Instrument Utility to change the selected measures to Clap.
If you look in the Instrument List, you will see that in the Clap measures the Notation Style is set to {Percussion}.

[motet]

Ah. The last time I did this was in Finale 2011, before there was a Score Manager, and the key signatures were displayed with just the staff style. When I open that file in the new version, though, it puts the instrument changes in the instrument list. There is an (to me) unwanted key signature change back to "C major" when switching back to percussion, though, which would need to be suppressed with a staff style.