"Advanced" Finale manual needed

[John Ruggero]

I think that a carefully-indexed online manual that includes all the plugins, add-ons, workarounds and hints would be very helpful to users. It could be assembled from the various posts on several websites by the expert users on this site. Since Finale development is now at a glacial pace, it would not need frequent updating. And it might even by profitable to the writer(s) if offered for sale.

[AnneMillington]

I could not agree more.

I have taken to just using google to find the answers to my questions, and retaining notes on a rapidly enlarging Finale cheat sheet I started. I do look on this Forum, and other power user websites, and can often find an answer there as well. But that is pretty random, and I am pretty sure that I am not the only one who would appreciate a comprehensive, relevant, indexed online resource.

I would certainly help in such a venture if asked, but don't have sufficient Finale scars to qualify as an initiator.

Great idea, John!

[motet]

What other power user websites have you found? There's a Facebook group, Finale Powerusers, which in reality has a mix of naive and sophisticated questions, much like here.

[AnneMillington]

I have gotten a lot of help from what Jason Loffredo has put online.

[motet]

He's a regular in the Facebook group.

[markgustavson]

Greetings. I am using Finale 27.3 to engrave an orchestra score with a solo voice. The percentage sign to resize staff is now gone. I want the solo voice staff to be 100% and the instruments to be 85%. How is this done now. Thanks.

[John Ruggero]

I could not agree more.

Thanks, AnneMillington. Finale as used by advanced users is really a collection of various tools. Information about this is scattered all over the place. It all needs to be brought together, at least conceptually. A manual would be one way to do that.

What other power user websites have you found? There's a Facebook group, Finale Powerusers, which in reality has a mix of naive and sophisticated questions, much like here.

The ones I use are this site, the old MakeMusic forum, and Notat.io. But having to do Google searches for everything is not going to be bringing any new users to Finale.

[Peter Thomsen]

… I am using Finale 27.3 … The percentage sign to resize staff is now gone …

Indeed the % icon is gone, but the Resize Tool is still there - its tool icon has been re-designed:

Resize-Tool-icon.jpg (6.61 KiB) Viewed 3119 times

I know, I know.
It is annoying when the developers change Finale’s user interface.
Some of us still remember the time when the Options menu was renamed to Document menu.

[ebiggs1]

I don't think people read "manuals". People search Google or Youtube. The very reason this forum, FB, MM's forum and the old Finale form exist.

[dtoub]

I don't think people read "manuals". People search Google or Youtube. The very reason this forum, FB, MM's forum and the old Finale form exist.

Respectfully disagree, with the qualification that the manuals be really good to read. I do read the PDF for Reason on my iPad and it's helpful. And in terms of Finale, I still have the old multiple manuals, largely written by David Pogue, from the early 90's (Finale 3.2). They're outdated of course, but these were extremely well written and nicely organized, and that's how I learned Finale way back when.

Nowadays, sure, I use Finale's online reference. But I'm also not trying to learn Finale as a new user. Seriously, the old manuals were extremely helpful. I'm all for conserving trees and paper, but they were definitely helpful. I don't think anyone here can say what folks actually do or would do if they had a choice. Unless I see data, it's all speculative. It would be interesting to understand what people would do if they could use a paper manual that is comprehensive and well written, vs going online.

[AnneMillington]

I have had to learn a lot of not particularly user-friendly software from scratch in my career, and I see great benefit to good manuals.

I rely on them to provide a clear comprehensive overview, a logical table of contents directing my way through the topics, a locator for tutorials, libraries and code samples, and maybe an analysis of version differences or best practices. I expect that critical issues with mystifying consequences would be warned against, such as what editing certain components of a part does to a score, or how modifying page layout and system locations is so quirky, or the effect that "real" whole rests has on creating multimeasure rests. I look for quick start tutorials that will get me up and running, and not leave me dangling at critical junctures. I have asked my share of stupid questions on this forum as a result of said dangling. And it seems that when I do find the answer to a problem, once I move on I can't find it again easily. So yeah, I would love a good manual!

Hard copy is nice for not cluttering my screen real estate, but to me digital is best for search and browse capability. As a new user to Finale, I found the logic and organization of referenced support materials opaque, and that they address random unrelated parts of the process, so that I didn't know what the paths to menus were, or if it were Mac or Window, or relevant only to one particular old version. So I just go to Google and search for whatever I need. Sometimes when I am lucky I find things of value here, but it's kind of random.

So I vote for both digital and paper, but if there has to be only one, I pick digital, because I could always print out parts if I wanted.

[motet]

There are indeed people who don't look at the manuals, but I think that's a big mistake.

[John Ruggero]

I have had to learn a lot of not particularly user-friendly software from scratch in my career, and I see great benefit to good manuals.

There are indeed people who don't look at the manuals, but I think that's a big mistake.

There was a lot of dissatisfaction when Dorico first came out without a comprehensive manual. So there are many people who do need a manual. Dorico now has at least one person who writes and keeps the documentation up to date.

At this point, Finale is still the best software for those who need a lot of flexibility. But it has gained a reputation of being difficult to learn to use for advanced users because it is a collection of a many independent moving parts. Something is needed to present it as a whole, since MakeMusic doesn't seem interested in making it a whole.

[ebiggs1]

On Teacher Development days I have taught how to use Finale. It is our district notation software. We have 12 music teachers. I asked one time how many used or read the Finale manual. The answer was none. The prefered answer was I Google it or I ask you (me).

Hey guys and gal I have no desire to prevent this idea. I think the concept is great. I would be willing to help create one. Just don't be too upset if it doesn't get a lot of use.

[dtoub]

Perhaps a reasonable (and environmentally conscious) compromise could be just a better organized and more comprehensive online manual than what currently exists. The way that old Finale boxed set was organized was wonderful since it had a detailed manual, a reference guide to show various examples, etc.

[John Ruggero]

Perhaps a reasonable (and environmentally conscious) compromise could be just a better organized and more comprehensive online manual than what currently exists. The way that old Finale boxed set was organized was wonderful since it had a detailed manual, a reference guide to show various examples, etc.

Absolutely. But MakeMusic is not going to include PerfectLayout or the complete TG Tools in their manual, for example. Ah, the old manuals were wonderful. The best I've ever encountered.

OT I just read a post over at Dorico that called Finale the Emacs of notation software. No real idea what that means, but my wife just told me that Emacs is a very flexible editing tool used by programers. That's what I like about Finale, and why Dorico is not very appealing at this point. But I think there needs to be a better way for newcomers to Finale to get up to speed quickly.

[John Ruggero]

On Teacher Development days I have taught how to use Finale. It is our district notation software. We have 12 music teachers. I asked one time how many used or read the Finale manual. The answer was none. The prefered answer was I Google it or I ask you (me).

Hey guys and gal I have no desire to prevent this idea. I think the concept is great. I would be willing to help create one. Just don't be too upset if it doesn't get a lot of use.

Googling probably works well enough for students. I was thinking about something aimed at professionals.

[heinzfan]

I have no real problem with the online manual, although I admit I keep cheat sheets for notation and playback, respectively. These include those things that crop up infrequently that I just can't remember. The manual could use search parameters to minimize having to peck one's way through the multiple responses in order to find the solution.

If you scan some of the abstruse questions in the forum I wonder whether any manual could be all-encompassing.

[motet]

I think you've hit on a big problem with the manual--the primitive searching turns up too many hits. Since the manual is online, though, maybe it's searchable with Google.

[dtoub]

OT I just read a post over at Dorico that called Finale the Emacs of notation software. No real idea what that means, but my wife just told me that Emacs is a very flexible editing tool used by programers. That's what I like about Finale, and why Dorico is not very appealing at this point. But I think there needs to be a better way for newcomers to Finale to get up to speed quickly.

OMG. I know emacs very well from when I taught myself Unix for fun years ago. Although I preferred to use Vim for text editing over emacs, emacs is probably more capable. But the reason the Dorico person mentioned emacs is not as a compliment at all. It means Finale is to Dorico what a command-line text editor is to MS Word. That's absurd in my opinion. But I know that is exactly what many in that cult think of Finale. And yes it is a cult...

[motet]

I'm a vi user as well (for maybe 40 years!). Emacs is powerful but arcane--perhaps therein lies the analogy to Finale.

[Zoots]

... But I know that is exactly what many in that cult think of Finale. And yes it is a cult...

You don't think that after reading various threads about which editor is best, that Finale users aren't in a cult too?

[ebiggs1]

" I was thinking about something aimed at professionals."

It is very disrespectful to not think of teachers as professionals. If it were not for teachers there would be no "professionals"!

[miker]

There's an old fable, and I'm probably telling it wrong, but...

In a long-ago kingdom, the king commanded his vizier to assemble the greatest in the land: philosophers, doctors, musicians, scientists, authors, and the like. They all assembled in their finest clothes, befitting their standing as the best of the best, so that the king could honor them. But before he spoke, another group filed in, wearing old, tired, shop-worn clothing.

Somewhat offended, the king asked, "And who are these?"

"Ah," the vizier replied. "These are their teachers."

[dtoub]

" I was thinking about something aimed at professionals."

It is very disrespectful to not think of teachers as professionals. If it were not for teachers there would be no "professionals"!

Not to step into this or speak for him, but as I read his post, @John was not referring to teachers, but to students. Yes, teachers are of course professionals.