Fa Noteheads direction in Shaped Notation with Stems

josefern · Post by **josefern** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:41 am

I am using Finale 2006 Mac. I have been an engraver for 6 years now and still am stumped by the shaped notehead for the FA (or the 4th) Is there a way to make the note headflip from left to right depending on the stem direction so that the wide part of FA is always on the stem side? I use Maestro percussion font and Shaped Notes font for doing shaped notation.

Peter Thomsen · Post by **Peter Thomsen** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 8:51 am

"I use Maestro percussion font and Shaped Notes font for doing shaped notation."

I suppose that you mean:
"I use Maestro percussion font and "Shape Note Hymnal.mus" template for doing shaped notation."

To change the notehead of the upstem Fa notes, use the Special Tool called Note Shape Tool.
Replace the Fa notehead (character #52) with character #56 - if character #56 is the note shape you want?
Or do you prefer a horizontally flipped version of character #52 so that the horizontal edge is on the upper side of the note shape?

Peter

josefern · Post by **josefern** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:24 pm

There are several custom fonts for shaped notation, Tamburo, Maestro, Extnoteshapes, Shaped Notes, Petrucci. etc. As for the templates I use variations of the Shaped note Hymnal. All these fonts and templates have the Fa problem.

I am quite familiar with the special tool you described. I also use the Staff attributes to define the default shape for the Fa for the Bass Clef staves. This only changes about half of the Fa shapes to being wide side to the stem. Is there no other way to get finale to change the notehead automatically depending on the stem direction? Manually changing a notehead is tedious....

josefern · Post by **josefern** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:25 pm

The vertical side of a Fa should be with the stem side. The horizontal should always be at the top when the right side is vertical. The horizontal should always be at the bottom when the left side is vertical. When two parts share the same FA the thick (vertical) side should be at the right when the stem goes up in treble clef. (down on the bass clef) the secondary stem hangs from the opposite point of the Fa on the treble clef. (goes up from when on the bass clef)

josefern · Post by **josefern** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:06 am

I'm Upgraded to Finale 2010 on my mac now. This issue is still here for Shaped notation. Would someone one please help or point me to a solution?

peterqd · Post by **peterqd** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:23 pm

Jose, it is possible to edit the Maestro Percussion font to add the mirrored Fa symbol. Unfortunately Finale does not differentiate between upstems and downstems for notehead characters, so even if the mirrored symbol is in the font, you can't select it just for downstem notes and you will need to change every one manually with the Note Shape special tool.

The attached pic shows the character in bar 2. If this is what you need, drop me a PM and I can mail you the adapted font.

josefern · Post by **josefern** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:02 pm

I've also tried to make staff specific use of the font characters with staff styles/attributes. That helps most of the "Fa" issues. But "fa" can be anywhere on the staff and the stems can go any which way depending on voice that is to be singing that part.

Is there anyway to link the shape to the stem direction? a plug-in? a special tool?

the Editing with the shape tool really gets tedious when you have a whole hymnal of shaped notation to engrave.

Peter Thomsen · Post by **Peter Thomsen** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:23 pm

josefern wrote:...Is there anyway to link the shape to the stem direction? a plug-in? a special tool?

the Editing with the shape tool really gets tedious when you have a whole hymnal of shaped notation to engrave.

Here's an alternative solution using expressions (Finale 2009 format).

It's still tedious, but perhaps less time consuming?

miker · Post by **miker** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:53 am

As I answered on the other Finale forum, I don't think this is a fault. If all of the shape note fonts exhibit the same behavior, maybe they are supposed to be that way.

Wiki has an example of an 1854 shape notes piece, that does not flip the note as the stem flips.

And if the note did flip, what would happen if you had two layers with the same Fa, in unison?

josefern · Post by **josefern** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:01 am

the 1854 example on wikipedia is the correct behavior. Finale puts the stem on the pointed side of the Fa when it is to be a down stem note. The Wiki example always has the vertical side of the Fa notehead toward the primary direction of the stem. When you have voice 2 or layer 2 singing the fa in unison their stem will come out of the pointed side. But if the note is to have only one voice (thus one stem) the fa notehead should flip to put the vertical side to the stem.

josefern · Post by **josefern** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:13 am

Here are the pictures showing the incorrect fa

josefern · Post by **josefern** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:23 am

Anybody to help with this issue, You'll save 20 Music Engravers a lot of headache and mouseclicks. We are setting a Shaped Note Hymnal, and can't possibly waste time on a flipping every fa that is wrong. Someone please help, write a script, or plug-in.

josefern · Post by **josefern** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:12 pm

This is an ongoing issue. Does anybody know if Finale 2011 has made this problem easier to resolve?

HonorsGrad · Post by **HonorsGrad** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:54 pm

peterqd wrote: ↑
Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Jose, it is possible to edit the Maestro Percussion font to add the mirrored Fa symbol. Unfortunately Finale does not differentiate between upstems and downstems for notehead characters, so even if the mirrored symbol is in the font, you can't select it just for downstem notes and you will need to change every one manually with the Note Shape special tool.

The attached pic shows the character in bar 2. If this is what you need, drop me a PM and I can mail you the adapted font.

Sorry for the follow up on the old post. I'm not seeing anything newer on this issue.

Is this still the best option for handling the downstem on Fa? @peterqd, is the font still something you might be willing to share?

HaraldS · Post by **HaraldS** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:35 pm

HonorsGrad wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:54 pm
Is this still the best option for handling the downstem on Fa? @peterqd, is the font still something you might be willing to share?

Why not create the noteheads as articulations? For each articulation, there's an upstem and a downstem version. Hide all normal noteheads with the special tools and use your own articulations as noteheads.

zuill · Post by **zuill** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:39 pm

I think the attached shows an acceptable way to go. This does not require modifying a font. The character can be replaced with one that is not flipped, but rotated, which I think is a better way to go.

Zuill

HonorsGrad · Post by **HonorsGrad** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:34 pm

How was this accomplished in Finale? I'm looking for a solution where I don't have to manually edit nearly 1,000 files...

zuill · Post by **zuill** » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:59 pm

I'm not sure there's a way. The JW Change plugin doesn't have an easy way. Maybe a FinaleScript or Lua Plugin script can do it.

Zuill

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