Using a single staff/line for multiple instruments

General Finale questions go here.

Moderators: miker, Peter Thomsen

Using a single staff/line for multiple instruments

Postby J0nyWalker » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:15 pm

I would like to use one line for multiple instruments, for instance my flutist would play both flute and alto flute, but since I'm only using one player, I wouldn't need two lines. Same thing with my bassoon player, also with percussion. How could I do that in Finale 2009?



Thanks so much!
J0nyWalker
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:12 pm

Re: Using a single staff/line for multiple instruments

by Sponsor

Forum Sponsor
 

Using a single staff/line for multiple instruments

Postby Peter Thomsen » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:29 pm

Layout or playback (or both)?
Finale 2011c, 2012c and 2014c, Mac OS X 10.9.3, Dolet 6.4 for Finale, Finale user since 1996
User avatar
Peter Thomsen
 
Posts: 5455
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Location: Danmark

Re: Using a single staff/line for multiple instruments

Postby J0nyWalker » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:33 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:Layout or playback (or both)?



Layout, and if possible playback. If it doesn't play properly I'll be OK, but I really need the layout, so that when I Extract Parts I wouldn't have to deal with a nightmare of different transpositions.


Thanks so much!
J0nyWalker
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:12 pm

Using a single staff/line for multiple instruments

Postby Peter Thomsen » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:11 pm

The layout is handled with the Staff Tool.
You create staff styles for the different layouts.

An example:
Where the flutist is supposed to play Alto Flute (which, If I recall Correctly, is a transposing instrument in G), you apply a staff style with Alto Flute G transposition.

The G transposition is not present among the ready made staff styles in the Default File (Maestro Font Default), so I assume that you will have to create the staff style manually yourself:
In the dialog box Staff Transpositions, in the pop up menu "Key Signature", choose
(G) Up P4, add 1 Flat



Playback is a matter of changing the playback instrument (= Patch Change).
You can do that with an expression.
Finale 2011c, 2012c and 2014c, Mac OS X 10.9.3, Dolet 6.4 for Finale, Finale user since 1996
User avatar
Peter Thomsen
 
Posts: 5455
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Location: Danmark

Postby blackorpheus16 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:53 pm

Great info, but here's a question: how do you make a switch from a percussion instrument of indefinite pitch to one of definite pitch on the same staff? More specifically I want to move from indefinite pitches to marimba, but in simply changing clef from percussion to treble I am left with the percussion map/unwanted noteheads in treble clef. What is the best way to make the change on the same staff, and how can I get playback (using Finale 2010)?

Also, as an aside, if you use staff styles to change the transposition of an instrument beginning on a new page, how do you get the courtesy key signature to appear to the left of the barline at the end of the previous page? Typically I would want it to the right of the barline, but not if the key change is only for one instrument.
blackorpheus16
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:25 pm

Postby michelp » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:13 pm

blackorpheus16 wrote:Great info, but here's a question: how do you make a switch from a percussion instrument of indefinite pitch to one of definite pitch on the same staff? More specifically I want to move from indefinite pitches to marimba, but in simply changing clef from percussion to treble I am left with the percussion map/unwanted noteheads in treble clef. What is the best way to make the change on the same staff, and how can I get playback (using Finale 2010)?

A staff style can do the job ("define staff style" unless it already exists) : choose 1 or 5 lines in the staff, select the clef, and for notation style : percussion or standard.
For playback : to make things easy, enter each instrument in a different layer, and in the instrument list window, apply a different midi channel and patch to each layer (create "New instrument" if needed). Percussion will be channel 10.
Last edited by michelp on Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michel
Finale 2012c, 2011c, 2010b, 2009b. MacOsX 10.8.5, Mac Mini Intel Core i7 2,7 Ghz, 16 Go Ram, Dolet 6. Azerty kb. Full TGTools. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express.
User avatar
michelp
 
Posts: 1295
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:35 pm
Location: Belgium

Postby Peter Thomsen » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:14 pm

blackorpheus16 wrote:...how do you make a switch from a percussion instrument of indefinite pitch to one of definite pitch on the same staff? More specifically I want to move from indefinite pitches to marimba, but in simply changing clef from percussion to treble I am left with the percussion map/unwanted noteheads in treble clef. What is the best way to make the change on the same staff, and how can I get playback (using Finale 2010)?...

I have already indicated the steps in my post above.
Here are some more details:

For the layout you need a staff style that changes the "Notation Style" from "Percussion" to "Standard".

For the playback change you will need an expression that performs a Channel Change:
In the MIDI instruments, the non-pitched percussion instruments are on Channel 10.
To switch to Marimba you need to change the Channel to something else than 10 - you can't have Marimba (or any other pitched instrument) on Channel 10.



blackorpheus16 wrote:...if you use staff styles to change the transposition of an instrument beginning on a new page, how do you get the courtesy key signature to appear to the left of the barline at the end of the previous page? Typically I would want it to the right of the barline, but not if the key change is only for one instrument.

If I understand you correctly, Finale displays the cautionary key signature to the right of the barline, and you would prefer to make the cautionary key signature appear to the left of the barline (because the key change is only for one instrument)?

Here's a way:

- Hide the cautionary key signature (in the Measure Attributes).

- Add a false cautionary key signature as a shape expression.
When creating the key signature shape in the Shape Designer you should be aware that the staff height is 24 Points.
Therefore, 1 "scale step height" is 3 Points.
For the horizontal positioning, note this:
The width is increased with
6 points for each extra flat added to the key signature,
5.75 points for each extra natural added to the key signature,
6.75 points for each extra sharp added to the key signature.
Finale 2011c, 2012c and 2014c, Mac OS X 10.9.3, Dolet 6.4 for Finale, Finale user since 1996
User avatar
Peter Thomsen
 
Posts: 5455
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Location: Danmark

Postby blackorpheus16 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:54 pm

I had problems when I tested out the original solution (changing staff styles), but I finally got it to work. Is there a way to drag notes from a measure with a different staff style into the new staff style? I tried to drag some marimba notes (from an actual marimba staff) into the newly defined percussion measures, but it gave me the percussion map instead of the treble clef notes that I asked for.
blackorpheus16
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:25 pm

Copyable staff styles

Postby Peter Thomsen » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:13 pm

I suppose that you by the words "drag notes" mean "copy notes"?

It depends on, whether you choose to include staff styles in the items you copy - as determined via the dialog box "Edit Filter".
See the attached screen shot.

If staff styles are not included, then the copied notes will display/play in the staff style of the target measure.
Attachments
EditFilter.jpg
EditFilter.jpg (74.1 KiB) Viewed 2894 times
Finale 2011c, 2012c and 2014c, Mac OS X 10.9.3, Dolet 6.4 for Finale, Finale user since 1996
User avatar
Peter Thomsen
 
Posts: 5455
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Location: Danmark

Postby blackorpheus16 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:25 pm

Yes I meant copy and paste, like the Selection Tool does when you click on one measure and drag the highlighted region to another measure. Thanks for pointing out Edit Filter, that does the trick.
blackorpheus16
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:25 pm

Postby blackorpheus16 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:17 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:If I understand you correctly, Finale displays the cautionary key signature to the right of the barline, and you would prefer to make the cautionary key signature appear to the left of the barline (because the key change is only for one instrument)?

Here's a way:

- Hide the cautionary key signature (in the Measure Attributes).

- Add a false cautionary key signature as a shape expression.
When creating the key signature shape in the Shape Designer you should be aware that the staff height is 24 Points.
Therefore, 1 "scale step height" is 3 Points.
For the horizontal positioning, note this:
The width is increased with
6 points for each extra flat added to the key signature,
5.75 points for each extra natural added to the key signature,
6.75 points for each extra sharp added to the key signature.


I created this false cautionary key signature with no problem, but now I need a false cautionary clef in another staff since hiding the key signature in the Measure Attributes also hides clefs. Very annoying. Is there a way to hide one and not the other? If not, I guess I have to add a treble clef earlier in the measure and drag it to the end of the measure.
blackorpheus16
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:25 pm

Cautionary Clef

Postby Peter Thomsen » Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:48 pm

blackorpheus16 wrote:...I created this false cautionary key signature with no problem, but now I need a false cautionary clef in another staff since hiding the key signature in the Measure Attributes also hides clefs. Very annoying. Is there a way to hide one and not the other? If not, I guess I have to add a treble clef earlier in the measure and drag it to the end of the measure.

Unfortunately the option "Hide Cautionary Clefs, Key and Time Signatures" in the Measure Attributes doesn't give you a way to hide the cautionary key signature, and not the cautionary clef.

You can add a false cautionary clef as an expression, though.
Finale 2011c, 2012c and 2014c, Mac OS X 10.9.3, Dolet 6.4 for Finale, Finale user since 1996
User avatar
Peter Thomsen
 
Posts: 5455
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Location: Danmark



Similar topics


Return to General Finale Help

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests






Music Engravers and Music Copyists
   Finale - Sibelius - Cakewalk - Archives - Finale Books - About Us - Contact


Copyright © 1994 - 2014 by C.M. Press, LLC