Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

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jose oscar
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Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by jose oscar » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:46 pm

1) In the file attached I would like to write the second lirics, the one in cursive, with small notes

2) And how to playback the song in the way it should be in true life? I mean how to playback the first time only the notes of the first lyrics and in the repetition only the notes of the second lyrics in the measures where the notes for lyrics 1 and 2 are not the same?

I appreciate your always valuable help.


Finale 2014/Windows 7
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:43 pm

jose oscar wrote:1) In the file attached I would like to write the second lirics, the one in cursive, with small notes …
In the measure with two different lyrics you have the first lyrics in Layer 1 (stems up), and the second lyrics in Layer 2 (stems down), right?
The layout might be easier to read if you move the first lyrics up above the staff = above the stems of the Layer 1 notes.

If I understand you correctly, you are asking for a way to resize the Layer 2 notes, right?

To affect only the Layer 2 notes:
Document menu > Show Active Layer Only

Resizing can be done with the Resize Tool (icon: %).
Right-click an item, and choose from the context menu.

Instead of resizing the notes you can also resize only the noteheads (try it!).

Also, there is a utility for changing the size of all notes in a selected region:
Utilities menu > Change > Note Size…

jose oscar wrote:… 2) And how to playback the song in the way it should be in true life? I mean how to playback the first time only the notes of the first lyrics and in the repetition only the notes of the second lyrics in the measures where the notes for lyrics 1 and 2 are not the same? …
If I understand you correctly, you need to mute Layer 2 on the Pass 1, and mute Layer 1 on Pass 2, right?

Since you are using VST playback, you can use an expression to mute a layer on one specific pass only.
Assign the expression to that specific layer (e. g. to Layer 2).
To mute, assign the pass to an un-used channel.
Then, change it back.
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by jose oscar » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:36 pm

Thank you for your answer, Peter

1)
Resizing can be done with the Resize Tool (icon: %).
Right-click an item, and choose from the context menu.
When I choose Resize Note and I reduce it the lyrics are also reduced

2)
Also, there is a utility for changing the size of all notes in a selected region:
Utilities menu > Change > Note Size…
It happens the same

3)
Since you are using VST playback, you can use an expression to mute a layer on one specific pass only.
Assign the expression to that specific layer (e. g. to Layer 2).
I don't understand that, Peter

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:22 am

1. To avoid resizing the second lyrics, two ideas:

a) Assign the second lyrics to notes in Layer 3.
Hide Layer 3.

b) Instead of resizing the notes, resize only the noteheads.


2. Regarding the playback:
You tell that you do not understand.
Please be more specific.
What is it that you do not understand?
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jose oscar
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by jose oscar » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:36 pm

1)
resize only the noteheads
I find this as the best option.

2)
Assign the expression to that specific layer (e. g. to Layer 2).
To mute, assign the pass to an un-used channel.
Then, change it back.
I created an expression called "assigned to Layer 2".

Now, Peter, how do I assign the pass to an un-used channel?

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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:06 pm

jose oscar wrote:… I created an expression called "assigned to Layer 2". …
Calling the expression "assigned to Layer 2" will not assign the expression to Layer 2.
You can call the expression anything - it does not matter for the assignment.

To assign an expression to Layer 2, use the dialog box Expression Assignment.
ExpressionAssignment.jpg
ExpressionAssignment.jpg (41.45 KiB) Viewed 11302 times
To assign the pass to an un-used channel, use the Expression Designer’s chiclet Playback.
ExpressionDesigner.jpg
ExpressionDesigner.jpg (33.02 KiB) Viewed 11302 times
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miker
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by miker » Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:48 pm

Thanks, Peter. That will help me, as well.
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jose oscar
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by jose oscar » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:43 pm

1)
Assign the expression to that specific layer (e. g. to Layer 2).
I did

2)
To assign the pass to an un-used channel, use the Expression Designer’s chiclet Playback.
What for this step, Peter?

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:54 am

jose oscar wrote:… What for this step, Peter?
For this step it is the Expression Designer’s chiclet Playback.

In the Expression Designer there are 3 chiclets:
Main, Playback, and Positioning
Click on Playback to bring the Playback chiclet in front.
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by jose oscar » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:03 pm

To assign the pass to an un-used channel, use the Expression Designer’s chiclet Playback.
I did it, but the result is not the one I am looking for.

Peter, as I could only send 2 measures of the score I couldn't explain things very well the situation on my score.

It's a score of 42 measures with the Repeat symbol at the end.

The measure object of my problem (2 lyrics for 2 diferent group of notes) is in measure 25.

1) Where exactly do I have to place the newly created expression? On measure 25? At the beginning of the score?

2) If I place it at the beginning of the score I get no sound when I playback.
If I place it on measure 25 I get no sound from m. 25

I copied the same values you have on the graphic you sent me on Expression designed / Playback

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:37 pm

jose oscar wrote:… Where exactly do I have to place the newly created expression? On measure 25? At the beginning of the score? …
It depends on where you want the playback effect to begin.
If you look at the bottom of the dialog box Expression Assignment, you can see options for, where to begin the playback effect.

jose oscar wrote:… If I place it at the beginning of the score I get no sound when I playback.
If I place it on measure 25 I get no sound from m. 25 …
Let me get this straight:
Does the expression mute both Layer 1 and Layer 2?
And you did set the expression to affect Layer 2 on playback?

Did you assign the same playback instrument to both Layer 1 and Layer 2? (This is done in the ScoreManager’s Instrument List)

Have you tried assigning two different instruments to Layer 1 and Layer 2? (one instrument assigned to Layer 1, another instrument assigned to Layer 2)
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by jose oscar » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:38 pm

1)
Does the expression mute both Layer 1 and Layer 2?
Yes, the expression mute both Layer 1 and Layer 2 from m. 25 (where I put the new expression) till the end of the piece

2)
And you And you did set the expression to affect Layer 2 on playback??
Yes, I did set the expression to affect Layer 2 on playback?

3)
Did you assign the same playback instrument to both Layer 1 and Layer 2? (This is done in the ScoreManager’s Instrument List)
I think so. At least when I select Layer 1 in the ScoreManager’s Instrument List appears the same than when I select Layer 2: Bank 1 Channel 1

4)
Have you tried assigning two different instruments to Layer 1 and Layer 2? (one instrument assigned to Layer 1, another instrument assigned to Layer 2)?
No. I tried just now, but I am not able to do it

5)
To mute, assign the pass to an un-used channel.
Then, change it back.
Could you explain this with other words? Maybe it's that I am not doing properly

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:43 am

jose oscar wrote:… I think so. At least when I select Layer 1 in the ScoreManager’s Instrument List appears the same than when I select Layer 2: Bank 1 Channel 1 … No. I tried just now, but I am not able to do it …
Just to make things clear:
It does not matter whether the active layer is Layer 1 or Layer 2.
What layer is the active layer, does not affect the Score Manager.

What matters, is that you - in the Instrument List - expand the view of the staff so that you instead of one text line for the staff have six text lines:
Layer 1
Layer 2
Layer 3
Layer 4
Chords
Expressions

When each layer has its own text line, you can assign different layers to different channels or instruments.

jose oscar wrote:… Could you explain this with other words? Maybe it's that I am not doing properly
Use two expressions.
One expression for muting on the first pass, another expression for “un-muting” on the second pass.


By The Way:
Have you tried MIDI playback (instead of VST playback)?
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Re: Small notes for 2nd lyrics + playback

Post by jose oscar » Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:14 am

1) I arrived to seeing this only by chance yesterday, but I don't know how I managed:

Layer 1
Layer 2
Layer 3
Layer 4
Chords
Expressions

You say " expand the view of the staff". I don't know what you mean.

Anyway I see so complicated
the whole question that I give up this time

Thank you rvery much, anyway, for your time, Peter, as always

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