Question for composers
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
- Djard
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
- Finale Version: Finale 26
- Operating System: Windows
Not sure if this is the appropriate section of the forum to post this, but I'd like ask other composers for an opinion or ruling on what I fear might be a silly question.
When composing, I often find myself having to decide what to keep and what to discard, such as writing two versions of a section. Usually I play both, until beginning to favor one. My wife suggests I keep the "six" and use the "half-dozen as seed for another piece. But then I'd have a lot of unfinished pieces. Presently I am laboring between two versions of a 32 bar flamenco guitar tremelo section that to my ear sound equally acceptable. The part is in 3/4 time. In version 1 below, the chord structure is symmetrical. Version 2 is amorphous but appeals equally to my ear.
I suppose the idea that I describe was born out of my training to write music in measure lengths divisible by at least four, such as 32 bars, 48 bars, etc. Is there a rule that in 3/4 time chords need to be resolved on, say, the first of each 2, 4 or 8 measures? I visualize the first measure as on the "left," the second on of the right...hence the feel of starting on measures with uneven numbers (first measure of every two, four or eight) and resolving the chord structure on the same. Both versions in the section end the identically. For example, in the key of Bm (natural)...
VERSION 1:
Bm - Bm - A - A7 -
D - D - D - D -
A - A7 - D - D -
A - A - D - D -
D - D - A - C#dim7 -
D - D - D - D -
D - D - D - D -
A - A7 - G - F# -
VERSION 2:
Bm - Bm - A - A7 -
D - D - D - A -
A7 - D - D - A -
A - D - D - D -
D - A - C#dim7 - D
D - D - D - D -
D - D - A - A7 -
Bm - G - G - F# -
Pardon the question if abecedarian.
When composing, I often find myself having to decide what to keep and what to discard, such as writing two versions of a section. Usually I play both, until beginning to favor one. My wife suggests I keep the "six" and use the "half-dozen as seed for another piece. But then I'd have a lot of unfinished pieces. Presently I am laboring between two versions of a 32 bar flamenco guitar tremelo section that to my ear sound equally acceptable. The part is in 3/4 time. In version 1 below, the chord structure is symmetrical. Version 2 is amorphous but appeals equally to my ear.
I suppose the idea that I describe was born out of my training to write music in measure lengths divisible by at least four, such as 32 bars, 48 bars, etc. Is there a rule that in 3/4 time chords need to be resolved on, say, the first of each 2, 4 or 8 measures? I visualize the first measure as on the "left," the second on of the right...hence the feel of starting on measures with uneven numbers (first measure of every two, four or eight) and resolving the chord structure on the same. Both versions in the section end the identically. For example, in the key of Bm (natural)...
VERSION 1:
Bm - Bm - A - A7 -
D - D - D - D -
A - A7 - D - D -
A - A - D - D -
D - D - A - C#dim7 -
D - D - D - D -
D - D - D - D -
A - A7 - G - F# -
VERSION 2:
Bm - Bm - A - A7 -
D - D - D - A -
A7 - D - D - A -
A - D - D - D -
D - A - C#dim7 - D
D - D - D - D -
D - D - A - A7 -
Bm - G - G - F# -
Pardon the question if abecedarian.
- Djard
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
- Finale Version: Finale 26
- Operating System: Windows
I got the answer to my question by listening to tremelo parts by the masters: in each case, the chords dictate resolve to the odd numbered measures. So version 1 in my example is--at least technically--the preferred structure.
- gogreen
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:50 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4.1.146
- Operating System: Mac
I'm sure that for every composer, you'd find a different system for organizing one's work. I think you're wife is right, though. I save ideas and fragments in Finale files with the date and initial instrument or ensemble in the file name. For example, "3-21-17brass ensemble.musx." Sometimes it takes months and years before I actually use a fragment--until I couple it with the "right" other, often newer, piece. That's why I save everything. And when I need a bit of inspiration, I review my "ideas" files. Something often jumps out at me then, and I'm back on track with productivity. Are you a formally trained composer?My wife suggests I keep the "six" and use the "half-dozen as seed for another piece. But then I'd have a lot of unfinished pieces.
Art
Finale 27
NotePerformer, GPO5, COMB2
MacOS Ventura 13.6.6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BRHBTHT/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=%22Arthur+J.+Michaels%22&qid=1593016536&sr=8-2
Finale 27
NotePerformer, GPO5, COMB2
MacOS Ventura 13.6.6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BRHBTHT/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=%22Arthur+J.+Michaels%22&qid=1593016536&sr=8-2
- Djard
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
- Finale Version: Finale 26
- Operating System: Windows
I was trained by fellow teachers at a music academy in Sydney then worked with a recording artist as her music director/arranger, so I learned the job on the job, often getting valuable help from orchestra members. I got to visit 18 countries on a seven year world tour and eventually recorded with EMI and RCA myself. In Nashville, where very few song "writers" actually write music scores, I made a comfortable living.
Finale would have saved me a huge amount of time back then as editing was a daily chore...had to write everything by hand. At the rate I was using blank manuscript, I feared trees would become an endangered species. LOL!
I'm glad your system works for you. If I saved every melodic "option," I'd end up with a table full of HDDs. There is little in the literature about structure. Recently I could not decide between a part that sounded better (to my ear) and another that felt really nice to play. So I included latter as an ossia measure. Strange how adding the measure elsewhere results in less.
Finale would have saved me a huge amount of time back then as editing was a daily chore...had to write everything by hand. At the rate I was using blank manuscript, I feared trees would become an endangered species. LOL!
I'm glad your system works for you. If I saved every melodic "option," I'd end up with a table full of HDDs. There is little in the literature about structure. Recently I could not decide between a part that sounded better (to my ear) and another that felt really nice to play. So I included latter as an ossia measure. Strange how adding the measure elsewhere results in less.
-
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:28 pm
- Operating System: Windows
Go with the one that has more texture/ sounds more finished/filled out/complete!
- Djard
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
- Finale Version: Finale 26
- Operating System: Windows
Another Q if I may...
I wrote a song that has a "Straussian" waltz feel. But often with only one or two notes per measure, the score appears awfully long (for a song). I am thinking of writing the sheet music in 6/8 to truncate the length. I'm curious how other composers feel about writing a waltz in 6/8.
I wrote a song that has a "Straussian" waltz feel. But often with only one or two notes per measure, the score appears awfully long (for a song). I am thinking of writing the sheet music in 6/8 to truncate the length. I'm curious how other composers feel about writing a waltz in 6/8.
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
If I remember correctly, the waltz movement in Rachmaninov's Symphonic Dances is notated in 6/8 with some single bars in 9/8 and then an extended section in 9/8.
(I've now found the score: I remembered correctly.)
(I've now found the score: I remembered correctly.)
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6