Cant handle more than 4 layers

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bluearrows
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Finale Version: finale 2014
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Cant handle more than 4 layers

Post by bluearrows » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:33 am

I'm just trialling Finale 2014 and have used Notepad.I'm importing an XLM file that was created in Sonar 3.When I import a particular piece I get this error
"Cant handle more than 4 layers in measure 46,staff 4.Notes in higher layers will be ignored.Mat also occur later in the score"
What can I do to rectify this problem.

Thanks
Justin
Windows 7
Finale 2014
Finale Notepad

Re: Cant handle more than 4 layers

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Cant handle more than 4 layers

Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:30 am

Welcome to the forum!

Finale has never had more than 4 layers - and I have seldom needed more than 2 layers.

I suggest that you ask MakeMusic.
Michael Good at MakeMusic is the creator/inventor of MusicXML.
Michael Good has also been deeply involved in the development of the new Finale file format, the .musx format.
Mac OS X 10.14 (Mojave), Finale user since 1996

bluearrows
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:27 am
Finale Version: finale 2014
Operating System: Windows

Re: Cant handle more than 4 layers

Post by bluearrows » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:56 pm

Thanks,
I'll try that.I'm Trialling both Finale and Sibelius.I don't get the same error with sibelius but I really like Finale except for this issue

bluearrows
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:27 am
Finale Version: finale 2014
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Re: Cant handle more than 4 layers

Post by bluearrows » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:48 pm

So I'm back at this error again. I'm getting it come up in nearly all my music
"Cant handle more than 4 layers in measure 46,staff 4.Notes in higher layers will be ignored.May also occur later in the score"
So is the problem with the XML files that i am importing that are created in Sonar X3.Do I need to "reduce" the layers there even though I have no idea how to do this.
Any thoughts?

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miker
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Re: Cant handle more than 4 layers

Post by miker » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:00 am

It would help if we could see the file in question. As Peter said, it's VERY rare to need more than four layers. I have trouble visualizing a piece of music where this might be the case.

Can you post the file? To post a .mus file here, it must be compressed (zipped) and cannot exceed 100 kb in size.

If nothing else, even a handwritten representation of the measure in question would help.
Finale 26 | SmartScorePro X2
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at8ax
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Re: Cant handle more than 4 layers

Post by at8ax » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:24 pm

Besides the four available Layers, each of those has Voice 1 and Voice 2, so it's possible to put as many as eight independent elements on any beat. (But like those above, I have never experienced such a need, and would like very much to see your file.)

dgatwood
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Re: Cant handle more than 4 layers

Post by dgatwood » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:35 am

miker wrote:It would help if we could see the file in question. As Peter said, it's VERY rare to need more than four layers. I have trouble visualizing a piece of music where this might be the case.
I would never have more than four layers visible in any given measure, but removing the four-layer limit would be a major usability win from my perspective. In fact, I could easily see situations where I would use a dozen or more layers. Why? Because I often have to use layers as workarounds for missing features, such as first-class support for cue notes (rather than just tiny notes created by a plug-in). It is quite possible that the original score author did something similar, for similar reasons.

Note that when I say "cue notes" here, I'm not talking about the use of cue notes as hints for where to come in, but rather the fairly modern use of cue notes as a way of covering critical portions of certain parts when you don't have specific instruments in your ensemble for whatever reason, e.g. adding cues for the entire oboe solo in the first clarinet part.

Consider, for example, a piano part that contains two layers and has cues from a handbell part that also has two layers. During normal playback, you don't want those cues to play, so you put them in their own layers (3 and 4) and mute the layers. But what happens if you need to do something unusual like use a third playing layer for any reason? You have a problem.

It gets even more miserable when you have a part that includes cues from more than one instrument (as is often the case when you're composing music for real-world ensembles, where the instrumental parts need to be optional). In an ideal world, those cues would be strongly tied to the original line. The cues would be automatically muted when original instrument's track is playing, but if you muted the original instrument line (or played from a part that didn't contain the original instrument line), the cues would play. (*)

But as long as Finale lacks that level of support for cue notes, I'd settle for unlimited layers so I can toss each instrument's cues into a separate layer, allowing me to selectively mute the trumpet cues but not the handbell cues (for example). Unfortunately, with a four-layer limit and limited support for cue notes, there's no good way for me to even approximate that behavior in Finale right now.

(*) This is, of course, not the only thing I would change in terms of cue handling. In an ideal world, all changes to the original line would be reflected in the cues, but changes to the cues (including note changes) would not affect the original line, and if you edit both lines, Finale would highlight any cue notes that don't match the edited original line to make them easy to spot. But that's all secondary to my main point, hence the footnote.

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Cant handle more than 4 layers

Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:21 am

Very interesting thoughts!

I suggest that you
- also post your thoughts in the forum on MakeMusic’s web site (many of the users there do not monitor this forum),
- send a feature request to MakeMusic.
Mac OS X 10.14 (Mojave), Finale user since 1996

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