Finale Forum

I'm working in Finale 25/Windows version.

In a few measures where I am working in 2 layers (Soprano/Alto), both parts have a quarter rest on beat one of the measure. The quarter rest in Layer 2 (alto), is "hidden" and the quarter rest in Layer 1 (Soprano) is visible, but is positioned too high above the staff. Going online, I've found information regarding using Window > Special Tools Palette > Note Position Tool.

Documentation states, "When you click this tool, a handle appears above every note or rest in the measure (except a single default whole rest). You can reposition any note, chord, or rest horizontally by dragging its handle. ..."

I've activated the "Note Position Tool" but the "handles" do not appear. Do I need to be in any particular mode (such as measure, staff, selection tool, etc.) to have access to the "handles?" Also, is there a way to manually adjust the VERTICAL placement of rests (and not just horizontally as stated above)?

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

No.
With Finale 25 there is an option to automatically consolidate rests between layers.

Yes. Drag the notes down where you want them with the Simple or Speedy entry tool.

Motet is correct. Make sure you are in the correct layer.

Simple is easier than Speedy in this case, I think. Ctrl-click on the rest; you can use the arrow keys if you want.

I never use the Control-click. I just double-click to select.

Thanks for the replies.

Simple Entry with Ctrl-Click did the trick!

Good to know about double-click, Mike.

and why are people ignoring the simple and effective new feature that lets Finale consolidate rests automatically?
it's considerably less work than hiding a rest in one layer, then moving a rest in another.

That is indeed a useful thing, and probably appropriate here, but it is possible to manually adjust the vertical position of a rest in the more general case, contrary to what you said. I do it occasionally.

It's not "contrary" to what I said if it involves absolutely no additional work on the user's side.
It's a setting. it does it automatically.
If rests can/should be consolidated, it will. If they can't/shouldn't, it won't.
I have just finished two major orchestral scores with Finale 25, and have not had to dick around with rests because of this new feature.
Try it, you'll like it.

It is a good thing. One of the reasons I got TG Tools, which has been able to do it for a decade.

But there are non-consolidation situations where one wants to move a rest vertically, and it is indeed possible and in fact not uncommon.

and this wasn't one of those situations.

which was why I offered the most efficient use of Finale, rather than a now superseded method of achieving the same result.

the example the OP gave very specifically referenced exactly what this new feature in Finale 25 does. Without any extra steps or slipping back and forth between layers or dragging anything.

I agree with Michel. Why not use the Consolidate Rests setting? There's no downside, that I know of.

Except: This setting was introduced in 2014. In that version and in 2014.5, if you had a rest as the first beat in a triplet in both layers, the bracket would only appear on the active layer side. That bug has been corrected in F25.

However, we don't know the OP's circumstance. Did he enter the notes himself? In that case, the setting is useful, and will work automatically. However, if the score was imported from another program or a scan, the rests may have been moved manually, and so the setting doesn't apply. In this case, either TG Tools or JW Change might be needed.

I agree with Michel, also. Just correcting "Q: Is there a way to manually adjust the VERTICAL placement of rests (and not just horizontally as stated above)?" "A: No." Perhaps someone would read that and be misled.

Michel R E wrote:and why are people ignoring the simple and effective new feature that lets Finale consolidate rests automatically?
it's considerably less work than hiding a rest in one layer, then moving a rest in another.

For the OP's situation, I agree that just un-hiding the L2 quarter rest will fix the problem, if Doc Options > Layer is set to Consolidate Rests.

However, see the attached image for an example of when this might be a problem. If you move to Layer 2 halfway through the measure in Simple Entry, Finale automatically hides the rests that precede it.

In such circumstances, Finale does not center the Layer 1 rest. So you either have to move the L1 rest manually, or split up the hidden rests into appropriate values.
You can also use JW Change to set the Vertical position to Zero, but be careful that your selection doesn't include rests that need to float.

miker wrote:I never use the Control-click. I just double-click to select.

You must mean from the Selection tool, not from Simple entry? But if you want to then select something else, you need to either leave Simple entry or use ctrl-click, no?

Yes. But since my left hand is on the keyboard, it's easy to tap the ESC key to get into the selection tool. I guess I don't even think about it.

I'm tagging my new problem on here bc it's close to the same subject.

I write a lot of pieces lately, and transpose them frequently in order to play along in lots of keys. Everything fine, except all of a sudden in one piece (that has an 8th rest in every m) the rests go up & down with the notes when I transpose or change clef. I'm using JW Change to mass-restore their proper vertical position, but I wonder if there is some way to make them independent of transposition as they should be.

It is possible -- I don't remember -- that these rests were carved out of quarter-notes -- I have done that in a few pieces. That is, what was a quarter is now an 8th + 8th rest, throughout the piece. I may also have used JW Copy Rhythm to make one change by hand, and then JW changes all of the other desired m's quickly, though unfortunately, one at a time.

It's like the rests picked up a disease. Is there a cure (so they stay in place)?

Edit: by "transpose", I mean use the Key Signature tool.

See attached excerpt.

Moving rests when changing key has plagued me for years. I am not aware of an automatic method of having them be left untouched. Would be nice to know.

Zuill

I just experimented with my sample doc -- I copied m1-4 to a 3rd line, deleted the 8th rests there and replaced them with new ones. These behave. So, it's like the m1-4 rests think that they are notes.

But then I wrote out a new line with quarters in beat 3, then changed them to 8ths (Alt-4) and entered an 8th rest after them. These are behaved. I also experimented with using JW Change to copy the revised rhythm in the 1st m of the line to the others so as to zap their quarters & replace them with 8th-note + 8th-rest. These behaved. So the culprit is still hiding.

I have forever had only very few isolated cases of rests with vertigo -- this is the 1st time an entire doc was infected.

Maybe Finale Help needs to look into this? I will wait a day or so.

You might experiment with the JW Change plugin regarding placement of rests. It seems the default centered on staff allows movement when transposed. Other settings seem to allow them to remain in place.

Zuill

Thanks for that tip, zuill -- problem solved. Some experimentation nets

Rests > Placement Style > either of the Floating options or Default-Centered on Staff

give the rests independence from transpositions. It is a strange contradiction -- when you select Vertical Level, what I have always used, the displaced rests center, but that seems to make them vulnerable to future displacement.