changing left- and right-printing page numbers

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lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:11 pm

I've got a three-movement piano score that's almost done. The first movement is 7 pages, the second 12, and the third 10.

So I change the page offset (and now I can't remember how I did that) on the second page of the second movement to say 7, which means add that number to the absolute page number of the current file. This means that the page now becomes 9, and the rest of the pages follow suit. All is well. (No page number appears on the first page of any movement.)

Except that this page number appears as a LEFT-HAND page, and 10 is a RIGHT-HAND page, etc., whereas ODD-numbered pages are always printed on the RIGHT (and evens on the left).

And yes, it means that the second and third movements will begin on a left-hand page. Common enough, right?

Since the second movement has an even number of pages, the same problem pertains to the third page.

How do I fix this? I figure this must be a beginners question, ergo posted here. Thanks much.


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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:10 pm

Maybe you need to exchange the left and right page settings in the Frame Attributes. Swap them from what would be the normal, if I am understanding the problem.

Zuill
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"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:37 pm

I take it you've got the movements in separate files.Since there's only one "part," Zuill's solution is best. Another option would be to merge the three movements since it doesn't sound like a huge piece.

[But with a multi-part piece in multiple files this is more of a problem--some parts may start on a left page and some on a right. And there's the problem of different page offsets for different parts. This of course can be solved rather tediously with multiple text blocks and hiding, and/or changing the offset long enough to print, but is a place where MM could give some attention. (I've resorted to adding page numbers in to the parts after combining them in a PDF file).]

lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:21 pm

motet wrote:I take it you've got the movements in separate files.Since there's only one "part," Zuill's solution is best. Another option would be to merge the three movements since it doesn't sound like a huge piece.

[But with a multi-part piece in multiple files this is more of a problem--some parts may start on a left page and some on a right. And there's the problem of different page offsets for different parts. This of course can be solved rather tediously with multiple text blocks and hiding, and/or changing the offset long enough to print, but is a place where MM could give some attention. (I've resorted to adding page numbers in to the parts after combining them in a PDF file).]
This is a solo piano piece in three movements. The score is 29 pages of music. (There's front and back matter, but I'm
planning on dealing with that separately.

I thought about merging (which I don't know how to do yet), but the middle movement has some special requirements
that make it different from the outer movements. (All time signatures hidden, some barlines hidden, some special
symbols.) So merging probably wouldn't work.

So I'm going to attempt swapping the left and right page settings in Frame Attributes. I was sure there would be
some sort of setting for that.

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:49 pm

By The Way:

According to your profile you are using v25.4 - there is a free update to v25.5 - but perhaps it is only your profile that needs an update.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:54 pm

Yep, I'm on 25.5.0.159. Never occurred to me to update my forum profile.
I'll do that.

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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:01 pm

lynndavidnewton wrote:So I'm going to attempt swapping the left and right page settings in Frame Attributes. I was sure there would be
some sort of setting for that.
There probably isn't because it's trivial. Change Horizontal from Left to Right and under Right Page Alignment and Positioning change it from Right to Left.

What I do instead is insert a blank page at the beginning if the file begins with a left page. Then when I "print" to combine the files into a PDF file, I print starting at page 2. But that's more necessary when there are partss.
Attachments
0555.png
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lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:12 pm

motet wrote:
lynndavidnewton wrote:So I'm going to attempt swapping the left and right page settings in Frame Attributes. I was sure there would be
some sort of setting for that.
There probably isn't because it's trivial. Change Horizontal from Left to Right and under Right Page Alignment and Positioning change it from Right to Left.

What I do instead is insert a blank page at the beginning if the file begins with a left page. Then when I "print" to combine the files into a PDF file, I print starting at page 2. But that's more necessary when there are partss.
Seems like everything I do is a question. Umm ... exactly what path to you follow to get that Frame Attributes box?
Until this popped in, I was clicking on the text object that is the first page number, because when I do that,
an Edit Frame Attributes menu choice shows up in the Text menu. But when I fool with it, it doesn't do what
I want, and it doesn't look like yours (of course mine's on a Mac, but it should be close), so I guess you're
looking at a different frame attributes box.

Sheesh.

I don't want blank pages between the movements on this score. I don't think it would look right.
I'm making a printed edition of this piece, with a cover, publication information, Preface, and
two appendices. But it's still just a solo piano piece. When's the last time you paged through a
volume of music (I'm talking about the Beethoven sonatas or WTC or something) and saw
blank pages? It wouldn't look professional IMO. Not that I don't appreciate the suggestion because
that would certainly be the easy way out.

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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:18 pm

I wasn't suggesting blank pages in your output. As I said, I don't print those--they only serve as a place-holder to make left/right come out OK. But swapping left and right in the frame attributes seems easier here.

What you're doing should get the correct frame attributes, but try instead right-clicking on a page number and going to the frame attributes from there. Post a screen shot of yours if you're unsure.

lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:53 pm

motet wrote:I wasn't suggesting blank pages in your output. As I said, I don't print those--they only serve as a place-holder to make left/right come out OK. But swapping left and right in the frame attributes seems easier here.

What you're doing should get the correct frame attributes, but try instead right-clicking on a page number and going to the frame attributes from there. Post a screen shot of yours if you're unsure.
I'm back ... I think I've found my way to where I need to be, but I'm not sure exactly what to do. I could experiment, but ... well, I'm very close to being done with this huge (for me) project, and I'm a perfectionist and I don't want to jiggle a thing unnecessarily, so I guess I'm basically chicken at this point.

Anyhow, I've attached a screen shot as requested, wider than the Frame Attributes box to provide a little context:
frameattr.jpg
frameattr.jpg (84 KiB) Viewed 14167 times
The number is of course the page number text object. It is the second page of the second movement, and I've set the page number offset to add 7 to every page because there are seven pages in the first movement, so the second starts with 8. (And of course there is no page number on the first page. I suppose there could be.)

So I'm unsure exactly what I'm looking at, but I'm guessing that first of all, I should probably set the Page Range to say All Pages, even though one doesn't appear on the first page. (There is a subtitle header, just the roman numeral II.)

I'm guessing that the "Alignment and Positioning" are relative to the text object frame, which is just an itty bitty square that has the number in it. If I want this to actually be a right page, should I set the Horizontal to Right so that numbers from 10 ff. will be against the right margin?

I'm also guessing I don't touch the Vertical or Position attributes.

Although it would seem obvious, I don't know about the stuff below, under "Right Page Alignment and Positioning". As is, this is a left page, and my objective is to make it a right page, and for the other pages to follow suit ... automatically I'd hope, but if I had to repeat the process on the next page, I could live with it.

But as is, "Use Right Page Positioning" is already checked. The way it's set up, this (and other) odd-numbered pages are set with the page number on the left. But I want to make it appear on the right. And the opposite for even-numbered pages.

What obvious thing is my aging brain missing here?

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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:09 pm

You're almost there. Change left to right and right to left. Leave the first page at 2.

lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:39 pm

motet wrote:You're almost there. Change left to right and right to left. Leave the first page at 2.
Hot dog! It works! :D

This means I'm basically done with this project, which I've been poking away at during odd
hours since November 6. I still need to pass through it, about ten minutes per movement
to make sure slurs and hairpins and all that sort of thing aren't colliding and that everything
looks shiny and perfect.

Plus I have to finish the front and back matter and assemble it all, all the usual stuff people
do to propagate their work.

This project has great personal meaning to me, and I had important personal reasons for wanting
to engrave it as professionally as I am capable of doing. I thank all the forum contributors who have
been so helpful and patient in answering my sometimes probably stupid questions.

Onward.

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