Can Expressions be stopped from duplicating?
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
- Djard
- Posts: 917
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
- Finale Version: Finale 26
- Operating System: Windows
Maybe someone can enlighten me where I am causing Finale v2012 to duplicate expressions and Expression categories. Here is exactly what I did to create the problem.
1. Launch a new document.
2. Delete all the Articulations, Expressions and Custom Lines.
3. Load my custom library.
4. Checked for duplicates and found none.
5. Created a tempo mark with the Expression tool.
6. Saved the document and exited Finale.
7. Opened the document and entered some notation, not altering the tempo mark.
I did this a few times, not altering the tempo mark.
8. Opened the document again and checked for duplicated expressions. The attached picture shows the result.
Where did I err?
1. Launch a new document.
2. Delete all the Articulations, Expressions and Custom Lines.
3. Load my custom library.
4. Checked for duplicates and found none.
5. Created a tempo mark with the Expression tool.
6. Saved the document and exited Finale.
7. Opened the document and entered some notation, not altering the tempo mark.
I did this a few times, not altering the tempo mark.
8. Opened the document again and checked for duplicated expressions. The attached picture shows the result.
Where did I err?
- Attachments
-
- Duplicates.jpg (74.61 KiB) Viewed 4456 times
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
We don't have your file or your custom library, so we can't really test this. I followed your instructions and no errant behavior. Somehow you have a couple extra duplicate categories called Tempo Marks. I don't get that.
I suppose we should have your cleared out file and then your library to test it for ourselves. I get perfect behavior on my end.
Zuill
I suppose we should have your cleared out file and then your library to test it for ourselves. I get perfect behavior on my end.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- Djard
- Posts: 917
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
- Finale Version: Finale 26
- Operating System: Windows
Attached is a document, cleared of articulations, expressions and custom lines. Also attached is my library file (zipped).
When I load the library file, three categories of expressions are added to the existing one; so that I have Tempo Marks, Rehearsal Marks and Tempo Alterations all empty plus three more of the same that are loaded and do contain data. Unlike the other categories, these three are not overwritten.
What I do before composing is move the contents of the loaded categories to the empty ones, since the default ones cannot be deleted. That way I start without any duplicated items or duplicated categories.
Once I start writing music and create, say, a new tempo mark, it is duplicated again in the category; perhaps not immediately but after a few edits, saving, exiting and editing the document a few times. I have had up to three categories with the same expression. Why MakeMusic decided not to allow an overwrite of all categories except these three is a mystery to me.
If you do not experience the problem, it will be an incentive for me to upgrade.
When I load the library file, three categories of expressions are added to the existing one; so that I have Tempo Marks, Rehearsal Marks and Tempo Alterations all empty plus three more of the same that are loaded and do contain data. Unlike the other categories, these three are not overwritten.
What I do before composing is move the contents of the loaded categories to the empty ones, since the default ones cannot be deleted. That way I start without any duplicated items or duplicated categories.
Once I start writing music and create, say, a new tempo mark, it is duplicated again in the category; perhaps not immediately but after a few edits, saving, exiting and editing the document a few times. I have had up to three categories with the same expression. Why MakeMusic decided not to allow an overwrite of all categories except these three is a mystery to me.
If you do not experience the problem, it will be an incentive for me to upgrade.
- Attachments
-
- Classical Guitar.zip
- (197.25 KiB) Downloaded 142 times
-
- Cleared.mus
- (136.26 KiB) Downloaded 152 times
- motet
- Posts: 8270
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
It sounds like maybe you've run into a bug, but it might not be worth your while in light of it to go to such lengths just to avoid duplicating categories. If it were me I would call my categories My Tempo Marks, My Rehearsal Marks, etc., and live with the presence of the built-in originals.
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Now I'm really confused. The attached document called Cleared is not cleared at all. It is loaded with expressions and articulations. In the original post, I understood that all expressions, articulations and lines were deleted. That's what I did in my experiment. But this file has many many of those items.
Let's step back to square one and get some clarification on what cleared means.
Zuill
Let's step back to square one and get some clarification on what cleared means.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Since this file is bloated to beging with, and then a library is loaded, there's bound to be issues. I have a much cleaner workflow.
First of all, I tend to create libraries without any of the stock items, and only include the unique ones. That might be one place to start.
Regarding loading libraries, if there are any changes in a category from the stock category, Finale loads a duplicate of the category. Since it is different in some way, Finale recognizes that. My quick look at the imported categories confirms my hypothesis.
Now, about the matter of further duplication, since I am not sure what steps you are taking, I can't comment. I can say that I am guessing the duplicates are already there, but you aren't realizing they were loaded with the library. I guess we need specific, step by step instructions as to what you are doing.
You mentioned creating a new expression, but I am not sure in which category. Maybe that info would help us to troubleshoot.
Zuill
First of all, I tend to create libraries without any of the stock items, and only include the unique ones. That might be one place to start.
Regarding loading libraries, if there are any changes in a category from the stock category, Finale loads a duplicate of the category. Since it is different in some way, Finale recognizes that. My quick look at the imported categories confirms my hypothesis.
Now, about the matter of further duplication, since I am not sure what steps you are taking, I can't comment. I can say that I am guessing the duplicates are already there, but you aren't realizing they were loaded with the library. I guess we need specific, step by step instructions as to what you are doing.
You mentioned creating a new expression, but I am not sure in which category. Maybe that info would help us to troubleshoot.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
I tested this on a clean document (default document) with no problem. I was finally able to get the errant behavior. It is not a problem with Finale 2012, or any other file.
So, I am guessing this is file corruption. If your Finale 2012 is causing the corruption, then recreating preferences is in order.
Zuill
So, I am guessing this is file corruption. If your Finale 2012 is causing the corruption, then recreating preferences is in order.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- motet
- Posts: 8270
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
My point was it sounds like he's going to great lengths just to avoid duplicate categories, which may not be worth it. I guess starting with "new document without libraries" may help, but personally I would not spend my time on that.
- Djard
- Posts: 917
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
- Finale Version: Finale 26
- Operating System: Windows
Oh my. How I managed to save a cleared file with library items is a mystery to me. Sorry for the confusion. If the attached file also includes library items, I will need to drink more coffee... or take a neuroleptic.
As you point out that Finale's resident categories cannot be overwritten, except for "Expressive Text," which is not duplicated when a library file is loaded into a cleared (template) document. The inconsistency had me thinking something else is going on. I have the choice of renaming duplicated categories to "My Tempo Marks," etc. or adhere to Motet's recommendation. I think I will go with the latter.
Thanks again for your patience and kind help.
As you point out that Finale's resident categories cannot be overwritten, except for "Expressive Text," which is not duplicated when a library file is loaded into a cleared (template) document. The inconsistency had me thinking something else is going on. I have the choice of renaming duplicated categories to "My Tempo Marks," etc. or adhere to Motet's recommendation. I think I will go with the latter.
Thanks again for your patience and kind help.
- Attachments
-
- Cleared.mus
- (123.46 KiB) Downloaded 157 times
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
In this file, without loading any Library, I create a Tempo Marks Category expression, place it in the score, then copy it elsewhere. It duplicates the expression and the category.
If I do this in a new file, or export this file to XML then re-import it, the odd behavior does not occur.
This file is corrupt. Get rid of it and start over.
If all your files are corrupt, then recreate your preferences, as something is causing the corruption.
Zuill
If I do this in a new file, or export this file to XML then re-import it, the odd behavior does not occur.
This file is corrupt. Get rid of it and start over.
If all your files are corrupt, then recreate your preferences, as something is causing the corruption.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."