Replacing rests with notes

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bj nick
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Replacing rests with notes

Post by bj nick » Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:11 pm

So this is something I can't figure out: you have a bar full of notes and a rest. I want to replace the rest with notes, but if I start doing it, it gets screwy with the notes to follow starting to attach themselves, etc. I know it's basic....how do I handle this? Thanks, as this is something I do (probably everyone does) constantly.

Re: Replacing rests with notes

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zuill
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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by zuill » Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:33 pm

Without seeing your example, it's hard to say. Can you show is what you have so we can accurately answer. I'm not sure what you mean by "attach themselves".

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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by miker » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:49 pm

If you select the rest and tap the R key, it will turn into a note of that duration on the middle line. Then, you can repitch the note, or whatever you want to do.
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motet
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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by motet » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:39 pm

You can click on a rest with the repitch tool.

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David Ward
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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by David Ward » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:11 am

In Speedy double clicking on a rest converts it to a note at the pitch where the cursor is at the time.
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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by bj nick » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:41 pm

motet wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:39 pm
You can click on a rest with the repitch tool.
I don't understand. Whether I select the rest first, or click on the repitch tool first, nothing happens to the rest. If I click on that rest it just clangs at me angrily.

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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by bj nick » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:41 pm

motet wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:39 pm
You can click on a rest with the repitch tool.
To what purpose? Not understanding....

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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by motet » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:52 pm

To the purpose of changing a rest into a note--isn't that what you were asking?

Read up on the repitch tool. The way it works is you select the tool first, then click on notes or rests to change them.

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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by bj nick » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:36 pm

motet wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:52 pm
To the purpose of changing a rest into a note--isn't that what you were asking?

Read up on the repitch tool. The way it works is you select the tool first, then click on notes or rests to change them.
Yeah, that's good advice. But what I need to do (all the time) is change a rest into a series of notes, not just one. It's no problem replacing, say, a quarter rest, with a quarter note. But replacing the rest with 4 sixteenths or similar, immediately any notes to the right join in immediately; they DON'T MAINTAIN THEIR POSITION. That's the basic thing I'm not understanding. People advise RTFM, and I totally get it; I almost always look there first. But very often my answer is not there; probably because I'm not even asking the right question! I don't know how to ask it, terminology, etc.

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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by bj nick » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:45 pm

I've attached an example bar where if you try to replace the rest with notes, the figures to the right of it will immediately attach themselves to what you're doing; that is: they don't maintain their position in the measure.....I'm sure this is a BASIC principle/function/concept I should know, but I don't. Once I do, my composing life will become much easier, as I'm constantly revising things and having to do work-arounds to preserve what I want to keep, while revising a note or two.

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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by zuill » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:09 pm

bj nick wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:45 pm
I've attached an example bar where if you try to replace the rest with notes, the figures to the right of it will immediately attach themselves to what you're doing; that is: they don't maintain their position in the measure.....I'm sure this is a BASIC principle/function/concept I should know, but I don't. Once I do, my composing life will become much easier, as I'm constantly revising things and having to do work-arounds to preserve what I want to keep, while revising a note or two.
I think the attachment didn't make it. Would you try again?

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motet
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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by motet » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:41 pm

That's right--if you delete a note or rest, the following notes will shift left and possible rebeam. When you've inserted enough notes to replace what was deleted, things should usually right themselves, but I can envision situations where you might have to redo manual beam breaks you may have made beforehand.

I'm afraid that's just the way Finale works, and you're not missing any basic principle. If you want to be able to delete a note and have a hole left there to fill in, you're out of luck.

I don't know if Dorico or Sibelius can do that, but probably someone here will know.

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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by miker » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:46 pm

Finale doesn’t work that way, at least in simple entry. If you remove notes in the beginning or middle of a measure, the notes will shift to the left. I don’t know if Speedy is different.

That’s where the repitch tool can help, although changing durations may require some extra work with the mouse.

If you post a couple of pictures of measures where you want to make changes, we may be able to give more directed advice.

Remember that at its most basic core, Finale is a notation program, not a composing platform.
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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:22 pm

bj nick wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:36 pm
… what I need to do (all the time) is change a rest into a series of notes, not just one. It's no problem replacing, say, a quarter rest, with a quarter note. But replacing the rest with 4 sixteenths or similar, immediately any notes to the right join in immediately; they DON'T MAINTAIN THEIR POSITION. That's the basic thing I'm not understanding. People advise RTFM, and I totally get it; I almost always look there first. But very often my answer is not there; probably because I'm not even asking the right question! I don't know how to ask it, terminology, etc.
It seems to me that Simple Entry does, what you need.
Perhaps I do not understand the problem fully.

Example:

4/4.
In the measure:
Half rest, Half note

You need to replace the Half rest with eight 16ths.
Set the entry value to 16ths, and enter the pitches one by one.
Use the keyboard to enter the 16ths (this trick does not work with mouse entry).
When you begin, the entry cursor should be at the Half rest, but the Half rest should not be selected.
As the notes are entered, the Half rest is replaced with smaller rests.
The notes to the right will maintain their position.

It works for me.
If you have questions about this, let me know.
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motet
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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by motet » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:45 pm

My interpretation of what he's saying is that if you start with this
0704.png
0704.png (44.43 KiB) Viewed 495 times
then go to replace the half note with four eighths, you get this after entering the first half note.
0703.png
0703.png (48.69 KiB) Viewed 495 times
He would like B-C-D-E to stay beamed at the end of the measure, with a hole to fill in where the half note used to be.

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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by miker » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:45 pm

In that situation, I would drag/select the existing eighth notes, and drag them to the left, replacing the half note or rest. Then, the repitch tool.

With a little practice, you can do all sorts of things like this. Drag just two eighth notes, and leave a quarter note either at the front, or in the middle, etc. Drag an eighth to leave a dotted quarter. Whatever.

Peter's solution works, as well.
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zuill
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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by zuill » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:00 pm

Maybe we should see the coming attachment. I replied that the attachment didn't make it to the post, so, hopefully we will see that soon.

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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by motet » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:12 pm

I strongly suspect my picture above illustrates what he's complaining about. He wants Finale to behave like pencil and eraser, which is not unreasonable, but it just isn't so.

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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by bj nick » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:28 am

Not sure why the attachment didn't make it in.....it seemed to. I'll try again. And I will try all these options tomorrow. Much appreciated.

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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:19 pm

bj nick wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:49 pm
Okay, regarding the "replacing rests" issue, I thought I'd attached the file; apparently not. Apologies. The issue is that I'll have a busy measure full of notes and if I want to edit the bar without completely redoing it, I can't just "punch in" that one spot. As someone mentioned, it's not "pen and paper." I get it. But after having listened to the feedback, I understand better and I have a "work-around"-- I select the notes/figure/etc. that I need to replace, delete it, leaving a rest there, and then just edit the rest. Does that make sense? It works and I'm content with that for now. It is probably the case that veteran users figure out the way that best meets their needs and stick with that until a better idea comes along. I'm content. Let's consider it resolved.

FWIW: someone pointed out that Finale is "notation software" at heart, and that is true. I do find it fantastic for composing....the greatest tool on Earth, at least for me. The more I tame the beast, the easier will be the flow.
In the Simple Entry Tool you can turn a selected note into a rest by hitting the letter R key.
Now you can enter notes where the rest was.
As the notes are entered, the rest is replaced with smaller rests.
The notes to the right will maintain their rhythmical position.
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motet
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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by motet » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:33 pm

That seems to work for MIDI entry but not mouse or QWERTY: with the mouse, an eighth note replaces the half rest entirely and the rest of the measure shifts right. With QWERTY entry, it enters a half note instead of an eighth.

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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by miker » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:56 pm

Peter is absolutely correct. I did this with Simple Entry, QWERTY:

Entered a half rest, and a half note.
Tapped the left arrow to move the selection to the rest.
Tapped the left arrow again, to set the cursor to the left of the rest.
Tapped the numpad 4 to activate eighth note.
Tapped B, A, G, F on the QWERTY keyboard.

Eighth notes were entered from the left, with the half rest changing to dotted quarter, quarter, eighth, and gone as the notes replaced it.

If the measure had two, half notes, back up to the first one, back up one more tap, and follow the same procedure. It works whether the entry you are replacing is a note or a rest.
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Re: Replacing rests with notes

Post by motet » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:26 pm

miker wrote:
Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:56 pm
Tapped the left arrow again, to set the cursor to the left of the rest.
Ah, therein lies the secret. Except after tapping left again, it moves to the previous measure, so you have to then move right; only then is the cursor to the left of the rest. The dotted quarter rest is somewhat unfortunate, as you would never write that in simple meter. Not a big deal, but if you wanted to replace the half rest with an eighth note and the remainder rests, there's an extra step to do.

I still haven't figured out how to do this with mouse entry, though. Is it possible?

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