Measure handles and beat spacing
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
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- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:56 pm
- Finale Version: 25.5.0.290
- Operating System: Windows
I use version 25.5.0.290 on Windows 10.
On some of the music I have written, when I select the measure tool and click on a measure then handles appear on all measures. At the right hand side of the measures are 3 handles. If I select the second one down, handles for beat spacing appear, BUT some measures show handles just for the main beats (i.e. if in 3/4 time with 6 eight notes, only 3 handles appear against beat 1, 2, and 3). In other measures 6 handles appear, one for each note shown. If in these measures, I add more notes (still adding up to 3 beats) then all notes have handles. What do I need to set up to get handles for all notes in all measures? Thank you
On some of the music I have written, when I select the measure tool and click on a measure then handles appear on all measures. At the right hand side of the measures are 3 handles. If I select the second one down, handles for beat spacing appear, BUT some measures show handles just for the main beats (i.e. if in 3/4 time with 6 eight notes, only 3 handles appear against beat 1, 2, and 3). In other measures 6 handles appear, one for each note shown. If in these measures, I add more notes (still adding up to 3 beats) then all notes have handles. What do I need to set up to get handles for all notes in all measures? Thank you
- motet
- Posts: 8276
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- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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If the beat-chart handle is not appearing in all measures, go to the Measure tool. select all, click on one of the measures, then where it says Position Note, pick Beat Chart Spacing. I think applying music spacing will also turn the beat charts on. If the measure is empty in all staves, then there's really nothing to space.
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- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:56 pm
- Finale Version: 25.5.0.290
- Operating System: Windows
I cannot follow what you mean. When you say select all, do you mean select all measures, or am I looking an option called 'select all'
Under ‘ measure attributes' Using Beat Chart Spacing is selected for 'Position notes', but only handles for the main beats of the measure are shown even though there are a lot more notes in the measure.
Under ‘ measure attributes' Using Beat Chart Spacing is selected for 'Position notes', but only handles for the main beats of the measure are shown even though there are a lot more notes in the measure.
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Then select all the measures and Apply Music Spacing. This should now show all handles. If not, then post the file here for us to examine.
Zuill
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- zuill
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These pictures show the difference before and after spacing.
Zuill
Zuill
- Attachments
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- Beat Chart Before Spacing.PNG (24.81 KiB) Viewed 3622 times
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- Beat Chart After Spacing.PNG (24.35 KiB) Viewed 3622 times
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
-
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:56 pm
- Finale Version: 25.5.0.290
- Operating System: Windows
This is for Zuilli.
Per your attachment, I seem to getting the top picture but would like to get the bottom picture. I have tried music spacing--all the options and I still cannot get the bottom picture, although in different pieces of music I seem to get some bars with the upper picture and some with the lower picture. Can you give me exact instructions pleases.
Thanks
GSF
Per your attachment, I seem to getting the top picture but would like to get the bottom picture. I have tried music spacing--all the options and I still cannot get the bottom picture, although in different pieces of music I seem to get some bars with the upper picture and some with the lower picture. Can you give me exact instructions pleases.
Thanks
GSF
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
To space the whole piece, with the Selection Tool, press ctrl-A. With the whole piece selected, choose Utilities/Music Spacing. There are 3 options: Note, Beat and Time Signature. The shortcut for Note says ctrl-4, but you can just press 4 for that. Beat says ctrl-5, but you can use just 5. Time Signature Spacing requires using the menu.
Now, Note Spacing gives all the note handles. Beat Spacing or Time Signature Spacing will give just the main beats, not the subdivisions.
Zuill
Now, Note Spacing gives all the note handles. Beat Spacing or Time Signature Spacing will give just the main beats, not the subdivisions.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
There's quite a lot of helpful information in the Documentation. Here's a quote that explains things:
"Beat Chart:
A set of handles (accessed through the Measure tool) used to adjust the horizontal position of notes. Handles appear either on the beat (Beat Spacing) or on each note of a measure (Note Spacing). Adjusting the handle for one note or beat will move the notes in all staves at once, keeping them rhythmically aligned."
You might want to do some exploring in the Documentation. You will learn even more on the subject we've been discussing.
Zuill
"Beat Chart:
A set of handles (accessed through the Measure tool) used to adjust the horizontal position of notes. Handles appear either on the beat (Beat Spacing) or on each note of a measure (Note Spacing). Adjusting the handle for one note or beat will move the notes in all staves at once, keeping them rhythmically aligned."
You might want to do some exploring in the Documentation. You will learn even more on the subject we've been discussing.
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
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I'm not sure. I guess I'd need to do some research.
Also, clarification on Ctrl-4 and Ctrl-5. Since I always use the number-pad for this, those don't work. Just 4 or 5. Ctrl-4 and Ctrl-5 are needed when using the QWERTY numbers and not in the Selection Tool. I guess I learned something. Unfortunately, the dropdown menu doesn't give any indication as to which number is being used. The documentation says to use 4 or 5 with the Selection Tool. That works for either number source. This is quite convoluted.
Zuill
Last edited by zuill on Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- zuill
- Posts: 4418
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
- Operating System: Windows
Maybe someone can make sense of the presentation on this page of the documentation:
http://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Fina ... %20spacing
Zuill
http://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Fina ... %20spacing
Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."
- motet
- Posts: 8276
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I suspect parts of that are quite old, for example, telling you to update the layout after spacing music (in my opinion, they should get rid of being able to turn off automatically updating the layout, since it occasionally confuses people).
I understand from that page what beat and time signature spacing do, but don't understand why they would be useful. Maybe very occasionally useful for some unusual problem measure.
I understand from that page what beat and time signature spacing do, but don't understand why they would be useful. Maybe very occasionally useful for some unusual problem measure.
- Peter Thomsen
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If I Recall Correctly:
Unfortunately it is necessary to turn off {Automatic Update Update Layout} when you run the plug-in {Beam Over Barlines} across a page break.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- miker
- Posts: 6009
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I use beat spacing quite often. The lyric spacing can be iffy in barbershop, particularly with echo lyrics. The beat spacing moves everything together: treble clef notes, lyrics, and bass clef notes, and lets me align things by eye.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- miker
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- Finale Version: Finale 27.4
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I move the beat spacing handles manually.
After initial entry of notes and lead lyrics with Auto-Spacing on, I turn it off and enter echo lyrics, tweaking layout on a system-by-system basis. I use beat spacing first (4) and then, if necessary, I use the handles for fine adjustment.
After initial entry of notes and lead lyrics with Auto-Spacing on, I turn it off and enter echo lyrics, tweaking layout on a system-by-system basis. I use beat spacing first (4) and then, if necessary, I use the handles for fine adjustment.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- motet
- Posts: 8276
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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Interesting. I've done very few choral pieces in Finale, but the spacing of the lyrics with note spacing has seemed OK.
What are lead and echo lyrics? Like, "There is a tavern in the town (in the town!), And there my dear love sits him down (sits him down!)"?
What are lead and echo lyrics? Like, "There is a tavern in the town (in the town!), And there my dear love sits him down (sits him down!)"?
- miker
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Exactly. And rather than parentheses, these lyrics are assigned to the voice(s) that sing them. In this example, -line, sweet were too tight. I used the spacing chart to move sweet and Ad- a bit to the right.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society