Why are some notes shown out of range.

The place for beginner Finale users. ("How do I...")

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

Post Reply
Pat Fox
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 2:14 am
Finale Version: V27.4
Operating System: Windows

Post by Pat Fox » Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:26 pm

Here is an example of a score that I am copying. Why are some notes out of range. How am I to know which range of trombone that I am to use. All the score shows is trombone.
sample 1.musx
(101.1 KiB) Downloaded 93 times


User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:57 pm

View menu > Out-of-Range-Notes > here you can choose Off, Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced. It's (supposed to be) a guide to the players you are writing for, but many people have noted discrepancies.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

Pat Fox
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 2:14 am
Finale Version: V27.4
Operating System: Windows

Post by Pat Fox » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:10 am

OK I turn them off but they still don't play.
sample 1.musx
(100.05 KiB) Downloaded 102 times

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:57 am

Do the notes not marked as out-of-range play back?

I don't have any audio units loaded, so I just use standard MIDI. Trombone plays back just fine.

Someone who uses GIFF will have to help you. Sorry.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

Pat Fox
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 2:14 am
Finale Version: V27.4
Operating System: Windows

Post by Pat Fox » Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:20 am

The notes will not play in Finale.
sample 1.musx
(100.05 KiB) Downloaded 97 times

User avatar
Michel R E
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Michel R E » Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:40 am

what are you using for playback?

and don't say "Finale".

Within Finale you can choose to have playback through ordinary MIDI with awful sounds. or you can use the Garritan Instruments for Finale that come bundled with Finale. or you can spend a bit of money and buy other libraries that can give you wider ranges, or more choices, or better sounds.

Technically, the notes below the E are sort of "out of range" for a trombone. I believe that performers are capable of playing them, but since there is a bass trombone they are not usually part of the standard orchestral range of the tenor trombone.

Are you intending these notes to be played by a bass trombone? or a tenor? if the former then you might have to select the bass trombone option, if it is available, in the Garritan instruments.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

Pat Fox
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 2:14 am
Finale Version: V27.4
Operating System: Windows

Post by Pat Fox » Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:11 am

I am playing back on my laptop. Using Garritan Instruments. I am sorry if I am not verse in the proper language. But I have a vary limited knowledge in music. I am retired. I like to buy sheet music and put it in Finale to play back on laptop and my Yamaha DGX 660 keyboard. I just recently purchase a concert score to try. Mainly all I have done is piano. I hope this explains why I sound so newbie to this.

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:31 am

If you change the Sound in the Aria Player to Bass Trombone Solo, then you'll hear the low Cs.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8230
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:01 am

Yes, a tenor trombone, which is probably what "trombone" is, can't play E-flat down to B-natural. (Most professonal players now have an F attachment that extends the range to include all those notes except the B-natural.)

User avatar
David Ward
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by David Ward » Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:08 am

motet wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:01 am
… (Most professional players now have an F attachment that extends the range to include all those notes except the B-natural.)
Some instruments have a long tuning slide on the F attachment that will temporarily convert the instrument to B flat/E, although that's less usual on tenor B flat/F instruments than it used to be, but normal on single valve bass trombones. Many (maybe most) pro-tenor players (at least in orchestral, opera and chamber music) posses both a B flat/F instrument and a ‘straight’ B flat one, but if they only use one will almost certainly use a B flat/F.

Pedal notes are a normal part of the regular technique and ought to be available for GIFF tenor trombone as should be the F attachment notes.

An oddity of the GIFF trombones is that the sound of the bass trombone is brighter and edgier than that of the tenor. The reality is usually the reverse.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8230
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:17 pm

David Ward wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:08 am
Some instruments have a long tuning slide on the F attachment that will temporarily convert the instrument to B flat/E...
Why aren't the triggers always in E, actually? Then there wouldn't be the B-natural hole.

User avatar
HaraldS
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:46 am
Finale Version: 25.5
Operating System: Windows

Post by HaraldS » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:48 pm

motet wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:17 pm
Why aren't the triggers always in E, actually? Then there wouldn't be the B-natural hole.
Several reasons...
- if the slide is always out, trombone cases would need to be much bigger, which would cost more. Or the F attachment would have to be wrapped around one more time which could cause space problems near the player's head. Each wrap-around costs tone control and tone brilliance
- all brass valves lower a pitch to a basic interval, like a half step, a whole step, a minor third (trumpet) or a perfect fourth. A brass valve lowering to an augmented fourth would be very unusual
- the F attachment's tuning slide can be tuned to lower either F to C or Bb to F, but not both, due to intonation problems. If it would be built to lower the Bb to E constantly, it would lower the F to B and you would loose the F->C option, for which the valve is used most of the time
- for the really low parts there are bass trombones, which are much more capable in that register - regardless how much the compromise "tenor trombone with F attachment" is enhanced
Finale 3.0-25.5, German edition, Windows 7
trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8230
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:43 pm

Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!

Post Reply