16th triplets

[Hucbald]

Hello,

I have to make a piano reduction of the second movement of Grieg symphony in c minor.
I am having trouble writing this passage in finale I have added the picture as an attached file (hope it works).

I tried about 10 times typing this passage in and fail every time. It almost seems impossible because the Finale is always one triplet 32nd short see second picture. I get the same result every time. either I'm doing something wrong (which I assume) or there is a problem with my finale. Can someone help?

Kind regards,

[miker]

First, take a look at this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/weehrytsb4x0w ... y.pdf?dl=0

In this example, I set the Time Signature at 4/8, with the option to show as 2/4. This will get the breaks in the beams correct.

Set your tuplet definition as 3-16ths in the space of 2-16ths.

[Hucbald]

Dear Mike,

thank you so much for your reply. I did everything you said I should do and also followed the instructions of the document you sent me. As you can see there is still a 32 tuplet missing in my version.

I really don't know what I could be doing wrong.

Kind regards

[Peter Thomsen]

Hucbald,

Is the layout important?

Or are you just trying to create a Finale document that plays back correctly?

A lot is possible with Finale - if you know how to get there.

* See the attached example (graphic file & Finale document)

[Hucbald]

Dear Peter,

thank you for your reply. I have to hand this in in a few weeks as homework and will be graded on the quality of the musical interpretation (the piano reduction itself) and the layout. So unfortunately the lay out has importance too.

Kind regards

[Hucbald]

Ah wait, I just realised you sent me a finale file so I can copy paste the rhtyhm. Thank you so much.

[motet]

I think the mixed triplet at the end of the measure in Simple entry is buggy.

[miker]

It worked for me. What can I say?

[motet]

Now that I look at the original post, it looked like Huchbald entered a dotted 16th and then picked "three of the current duration in the space of two of the current duration" (either explicitly are by using the default), which of course won't work. There was another instance just a day or two ago, though, which definitely invoked a bug.

[Hucbald]

Now that I look at the original post, it looked like Huchbald entered a dotted 16th and then picked "three of the current duration in the space of two of the current duration" (either explicitly are by using the default), which of course won't work. There was another instance just a day or two ago, though, which definitely invoked a bug.

I attached an image of what I did. I even set the 3 notes of 16th's in the space of 2 16th's as a default just for safety.

[miker]

Can you give us an exact step-by-step of what you're doing?

[motet]

My apologies, Hucbald--I get exactly what you show. At least things add up to three 16ths. The problem is that you can't overstrike the second (16th) rest with a 32nd note--it will stubbornly enter a 16th anyway (up-stem note is the cursor):

0051.png (54.32 KiB) Viewed 3099 times

If you delete the rests, then you can get what you want:

0052.png (54.98 KiB) Viewed 3099 times

[motet]

Mike, maybe you can clear something up that I've never understood. When I enter the first note of a triplet and then press 9 or Alt+9, the note is still highlighted after it adds the rests, and I need to either enter it again or move the cursor to the right before entering the rest of the tuplet. So to enter an ABC triplet I'd need to do A9ABC, or A9rightBC. Is this the way it always works? It seems non-intuitive and I think confuses people. (I'm not asking you to defend it!)

I'm also confused about those rests. Above, we see they must be deleted first before completing the triplet, but I recall other occasions where deleting them gets one into trouble.

[motet]

So if I try to enter this at the end of the measure, using the delete-rests method, I get this, whether or not "check for extra notes" is selected.

In the example you posted above, Mike, you didn't start out with a dotted sixteenth on beats 2-4, which is where I think the diference lies.

[motet]

It looks like the only way to do this inside of Simple Entry is to fix the duration of the rests that Finale creates first

0056.png (126.51 KiB) Viewed 3077 times

and then you can change the pitches.

which of course is a big hassle.

Completing the "Finale is a dog's breakfast" picture is the fact that you then need to reverse the broken beam with the Broken Bean tool.

[motet]

It looks like if you use the mouse to enter the notes rather than QWERTY, you avoid these bugs for the most part (except the wrong-directioned broken beam, which plagues Speedy Entry as well). Don't erase the rests, just click over them.

[miker]

I use the QWERTY to enter everything. I have my default tuplet as three 16ths in the space of two 16ths, activated with the 9. A zero enters a rest of the chosen duration. 3 selects a 16th note, 2 selects a 32nd. All numbers are entered on the numberpad. Check for extra notes is selected, although it works just as well with it unchecked.

3, note, 9, dot (period on the keypad) 2, note, 3, note.

3, note, 9, 2, 0, note, 3, note. Repeat for last two tuplets.

I will be happy to do a Zoom with anyone who doubts me on this!

[motet]

I think adding the dot after setting up the triplet is key.

Any thoughts on the following (I guess it's useful in this case!)?

Mike, maybe you can clear something up that I've never understood. When I enter the first note of a triplet and then press 9 or Alt+9, the note is still highlighted after it adds the rests, and I need to either enter it again or move the cursor to the right before entering the rest of the tuplet. So to enter an ABC triplet I'd need to do A9ABC, or A9rightBC. Is this the way it always works? It seems non-intuitive and I think confuses people. (I'm not asking you to defend it!)

[miker]

I don't have to do that, except under some rare circumstances. (So rare, I can't even tell you why.) In this picture, I have entered the first note, and tapped the 9. You can see that the Simple Entry caret is ready to enter the next note. All I would do is enter the pitch, again from the QWERTY keyboard. Do you have Use Simple Entry Caret selected in the Simple Entry Options?

[motet]

I think I discovered the difference: if you use the mouse to click in the first note in the measure, then the cursor stays on that note, whereas if you use QWERTY, it does not. If I want to start in a given measure, I usually place the first note by clicking, since I need the mouse to move to that measure anyway. I guess I could instead get in the habit of Ctrl+clicking, then entering the note with QWERTY.

[Hucbald]

I will show you a step by step of what I do. I tried deleting the rests as motet suggested but that didn't make a difference. As for the tips Miker just gave I'll try them after making this post. I am used to typing in everything with mouse so I would be disappointed if I couldn't type in this rhythm using the mouse. I have an Azerty keyboard on my laptop I don't have a querty (thought I'd mention it in case it's relevant).

The sequence of events:

pic 1: I use the time signature tool to change the divide of the rhythm to 4/8 but display it as a 2/4
pic 2: I place my first dotted 16th triplet rest.
pic 3: I press alt+9 to make sure my entry tuplet division is set to 3*16ths in the space of 2*16ths and I set this as the default just to be sure.

[Hucbald]

pic 4: I have inserted my first 16th dotted rest, a 1/32th note and a 16th note.
pic 5: I have inserted the second motive on the second 8th of the first beat.
pic 6: I do the same with the first 8th of the second beat.

[Hucbald]

pic 7: First 16th of last 8th of the measure is in.
pic 8: the first 1/32th rest is in.
pic 9: now the 32th note that needs to follow

[Hucbald]

pic 10: I try to add the last 16th note and finale won't allow me. According to finale the measure is full.
pic 11: I insert a random note in the second measure to see what finale does. And it adds only a 32th to the first measure while there should actually be a 16th rest.

I showed it without deleting the rests motet because I tried that approach multiple times yesterday and it didn't work so it doesn't make a difference. It is more clean and enjoyable to work that way though.

I had to sperate my post in multiple posts because the forum bugged every time I tried to attach more than 3 pictures. Is this normal?
Thanks for reading this and I hope you can tell me what I do wrong.

[miker]

Yes. This forum limits you to three attachments.

Are you using the Simple Entry Caret? From what I see in your screenshot, it doesn't look like it. If you are on a laptop without a numberpad, I suggest you get a USB numberpad.

Otherwise, I'm at a loss as to what else to suggest.