Downward rolled chords?

The place for beginner Finale users. ("How do I...")

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

Post Reply
User avatar
andronymous
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by andronymous » Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:48 am

Is there a downward rolled chord articulation? I can only see the regular one in the articulations options :oops:
The world would be a better place if we were all a little more kind <3


heinzfan
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:42 pm
Finale Version: 27
Operating System: Windows

Post by heinzfan » Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:18 am

Duplicate and then edit the new articulation, inverting the playback values. In the Articulation designer box click the "help" button and it explains the values and how to set the roll on the beat or before the beat.
Finale 27, Windows 10, VST: Vienna Instruments/Ensemble/Synchron, Cubase, Kontakt 5

User avatar
michelp
Posts: 2045
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:35 pm
Finale Version: 27.4.1,26.3.1, Mont.
Operating System: Mac

Post by michelp » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:12 am

If you are looking for arrows pointing up or down, they are available a.o. in the EngraverTextNCS font.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua

User avatar
andronymous
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by andronymous » Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:37 pm

michelp wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:12 am
If you are looking for arrows pointing up or down, they are available a.o. in the EngraverTextNCS font.
It looks like Finale knows it's a font I have but it's just not installed completely? Do you know how to fix this?
Attachments
Screen Shot 2022-04-20 at 10.35.33 AM.png
The world would be a better place if we were all a little more kind <3

User avatar
michelp
Posts: 2045
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:35 pm
Finale Version: 27.4.1,26.3.1, Mont.
Operating System: Mac

Post by michelp » Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:00 pm

Engraver Text H and Engraver Text T have them, too.
P.S. : are you still with Finale 26 ?
Last edited by michelp on Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:01 pm

Only that downward arpeggio should be in that font. Add it as an articulation.

The rest of the score should be in whatever music font you have as the default. (That's how it looks to me, anyway...)
Attachments
Screen Shot 2022-04-20 at 10.13.44 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2022-04-20 at 10.13.44 AM.jpg (18.6 KiB) Viewed 3380 times
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
andronymous
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by andronymous » Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:23 pm

miker wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:01 pm
Only that downward arpeggio should be in that font. Add it as an articulation.

The rest of the score should be in whatever music font you have as the default. (That's how it looks to me, anyway...)
That worked but my only problem now is that I want it to span both staves, but I'm not able to lengthen it.
Attachments
Screen Shot 2022-04-20 at 12.22.45 PM.png
The world would be a better place if we were all a little more kind <3

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:08 pm

andronymous wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:23 pm
… That worked but my only problem now is that I want it to span both staves, but I'm not able to lengthen it …
The arrow character comes in 3 lengths (= 3 different font characters).

It looks like you are using the longest arrow character.

To get a longer arrow than the longest arrow character, instead use the Smart Shape Tool’s sub-tool Custom Line Tool.
Use the dialog box Smart Line Designer.
Create a custom line in the Line Style {Character} - meaning that the line repeats the chosen character (= the “wavy” character), and add an arrowhead to the custom line.

You make your custom line vertical (use the context menu).
You can make your custom line longer or shorter as needed.

I hope that this is clear?
If not, ask again.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:49 pm

Dang, Peter, why didn’t I think of that?

Could you generate correct playback with a smart line?
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
andronymous
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by andronymous » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:42 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:08 pm
andronymous wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:23 pm
… That worked but my only problem now is that I want it to span both staves, but I'm not able to lengthen it …
The arrow character comes in 3 lengths (= 3 different font characters).

It looks like you are using the longest arrow character.

To get a longer arrow than the longest arrow character, instead use the Smart Shape Tool’s sub-tool Custom Line Tool.
Use the dialog box Smart Line Designer.
Create a custom line in the Line Style {Character} - meaning that the line repeats the chosen character (= the “wavy” character), and add an arrowhead to the custom line.

You make your custom line vertical (use the context menu).
You can make your custom line longer or shorter as needed.

I hope that this is clear?
If not, ask again.
I'm able to get a longer downward arpeggio so thank you for that but is there any way to change the size of the arrowhead? 3 is too small and 5 is too big. I can't edit the sizes and making one myself isn't practical either :?
The world would be a better place if we were all a little more kind <3

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:16 am

andronymous wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:42 pm
… I'm able to get a longer downward arpeggio so thank you for that but is there any way to change the size of the arrowhead? 3 is too small and 5 is too big …
From your description it sounds like you are trying the preset arrowheads.

Instead of using one of the preset arrowheads you could create your own, custom arrowhead, in the size you need.

See the attached Finale document.
Attachments
Arrowhead.musx
(13.64 KiB) Downloaded 60 times
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

User avatar
andronymous
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by andronymous » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:56 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:16 am
andronymous wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:42 pm
… I'm able to get a longer downward arpeggio so thank you for that but is there any way to change the size of the arrowhead? 3 is too small and 5 is too big …
From your description it sounds like you are trying the preset arrowheads.

Instead of using one of the preset arrowheads you could create your own, custom arrowhead, in the size you need.

See the attached Finale document.
Yes I tried doing that but the custom ones aren't actual arrowheads and I can't make a precise enough arrowhead myself. The one in your musx file looks exactly like one.
Attachments
Screen Shot 2022-04-21 at 2.54.44 PM.png
The world would be a better place if we were all a little more kind <3

User avatar
miker
Posts: 5993
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
Finale Version: Finale 27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by miker » Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:43 pm

If the one Peter used is OK, copy it into your document. Then, you will have it to use in your custom line tools.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

User avatar
andronymous
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by andronymous » Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:47 am

miker wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:43 pm
If the one Peter used is OK, copy it into your document. Then, you will have it to use in your custom line tools.
I don't know how to do either of those. Trying to copy and paste it into a separate score isn't working.
The world would be a better place if we were all a little more kind <3

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:22 am

andronymous wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:47 am
… Trying to copy and paste it into a separate score isn't working.
It works for me:

From the Selection Tool, double-click the measure stack, to select it.
Now, you can Copy the entire measure stack, and Paste it into another Finale document.

The downward arpeggio Custom Line will be copied/pasted with the notes in the measure stack.

By the Way:
I did not create the arrowhead as a custom shape.
Instead I used a font character (an arrow).
You can not see the arrow’s “stem” because the “stem” is hidden in the wavy line.
Only the arrow’s “head” is visible.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

User avatar
andronymous
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by andronymous » Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:21 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:22 am
andronymous wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:47 am
… Trying to copy and paste it into a separate score isn't working.
It works for me:

From the Selection Tool, double-click the measure stack, to select it.
Now, you can Copy the entire measure stack, and Paste it into another Finale document.

The downward arpeggio Custom Line will be copied/pasted with the notes in the measure stack.

By the Way:
I did not create the arrowhead as a custom shape.
Instead I used a font character (an arrow).
You can not see the arrow’s “stem” because the “stem” is hidden in the wavy line.
Only the arrow’s “head” is visible.
Thanks. I was only copying the line itself and not the whole measure, haha. One last question: how did you add the arrow font character to the line? When I click on yours it looks like it's all one object but I don't see an option to add font characters in the smart shape options.
The world would be a better place if we were all a little more kind <3

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:03 pm

andronymous wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:21 pm
… how did you add the arrow font character to the line? When I click on yours it looks like it's all one object but I don't see an option to add font characters in the smart shape options.
No, not in the Smart Shape Options, but rather in the Smart Line Designer.

In the Smart Line Designer you can add a Preset Arrowhead, or add a Custom Arrowhead.

If you choose Custom Arrowhead, you can create your own Custom Arrowhead in the Shape Designer.

In the Shape Designer I used the sub-tool Text Tool, and added a text block with a single font character (= an arrow character).

When you view the Custom Line, you can not see the arrow’s “stem” because the “stem” is hidden in the wavy line.
Only the arrow’s “head” is visible.

But in the Shape Designer (where you create the Custom Arrowhead) only the arrow character is shown (not the wavy line), and you can clearly see the arrow character’s “stem”.

I hope that this is clear?
If not, ask again.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

User avatar
andronymous
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by andronymous » Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:25 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:03 pm
andronymous wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:21 pm
… how did you add the arrow font character to the line? When I click on yours it looks like it's all one object but I don't see an option to add font characters in the smart shape options.
No, not in the Smart Shape Options, but rather in the Smart Line Designer.

In the Smart Line Designer you can add a Preset Arrowhead, or add a Custom Arrowhead.

If you choose Custom Arrowhead, you can create your own Custom Arrowhead in the Shape Designer.

In the Shape Designer I used the sub-tool Text Tool, and added a text block with a single font character (= an arrow character).

When you view the Custom Line, you can not see the arrow’s “stem” because the “stem” is hidden in the wavy line.
Only the arrow’s “head” is visible.

But in the Shape Designer (where you create the Custom Arrowhead) only the arrow character is shown (not the wavy line), and you can clearly see the arrow character’s “stem”.

I hope that this is clear?
If not, ask again.
Very clear, thank you. But now I can't get the right arrow character. > won't work and I found ➤ online, but can't paste it into the line designer box... Were you able to copy and paste or did yours come from a command on your keyboard?
The world would be a better place if we were all a little more kind <3

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:39 am

That is indeed an annoying shortcoming with the Shape Designer’s sub-tool Text Tool:
You can not Paste a font character into a text block - you have to type the font character.

I used the font Engraver Text, and typed a ‘:’ (colon).
That keystroke (= colon) gave me a right-pointing arrow.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

User avatar
andronymous
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by andronymous » Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:52 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:39 am
That is indeed an annoying shortcoming with the Shape Designer’s sub-tool Text Tool:
You can not Paste a font character into a text block - you have to type the font character.

I used the font Engraver Text, and typed a ‘:’ (colon).
That keystroke (= colon) gave me a right-pointing arrow.
Even with that font, I'm not able to get an arrow. Thank you anyway though. Hopefully they add a downward arpeggio articulation in the next 27 update so this whole process can be avoided. Very weird it's not there already
The world would be a better place if we were all a little more kind <3

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6601
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:30 pm

andronymous wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:52 pm
… Even with that font, I'm not able to get an arrow …
To get an arrow you could also try the slightly different arrow character at Option-I (Option + the letter i key), in the very same font.

It may be a matter of keyboard layout.
What keyboard layout are you using? (System Preferences - Keyboard)

Anyway, in Finale’s dialog box Symbol Selection you can view all a font’s characters, and see the keystroke for each character.

To get to the Symbol Selection:
Text menu > Inserts > Symbol…
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

Post Reply