Repeat endings issues

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bamboleate
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Post by bamboleate » Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:19 am

My ending brackets are not attatched to the staff where they should be. If I click the bracket, do five times arrow down, it's attatched like I want it to, also the chord symbol is not colliding with the bracket anymore.

There has to be an automated way to do this.

One of the questions is: Is the only way to find out what numbers to input in the /document options/repeats/repeat endings/ menu to fiddle around, or is "5x arrow down" documented somewhere where I don't have the right search keywords?

Please point me in the right direction. Thanks.


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Peter Thomsen
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Finale Version: Finale v27.4
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:47 pm

Document menu > Document Options (but remember the keyboard shortcut!)

At the bottom of the Document Options there is a pop up menu for Measurement Units.
More about that pop up menu below.

In the Document Options, select
Repeats

Then, click the button {Repeat Endings…}.


By default, the Measurement Units in Finale are set to Inches.
But for this kind of precision layout things are easier with small Measurement Units, like Points (small), or EVPUs (very small).

To set the program’s Measurement Units:
Finale menu > Measurement Units > …

You can also, locally, temporarily, change the Measurement Units (in case you generally prefer Inches):

A. In the Document Options (described above) there is a pop up menu with Measurement Units.

B. In any value field for Measurement Units you can type the value followed by a letter code:
1e = 1 EVPU
1pt = 1 Point
(&c.)
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

bamboleate
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:50 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by bamboleate » Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:23 pm

Thanks for your answer! If I understand it correctly, you don't know either how much "5x arrow down" translates to how many inches, centimetres, pt, EVPU, lightyears.. Sorry, I get carried away, but in my understanding, every measurement unit differs, but if I click on the bracket and "do 5x arrow down", the line of the bracket touches the staff; so in ANY measurement unit there has to be a certain number or fraction, that is exactly that "5x arrow down" distance.

I thought I could ask the masters in a Finale Forum what that distance is. But from your answer I have the feeling that I am the only one that wants that, so.. Alright I'll fiddle with it.

I do hope that makes things clearer and I do intensely hope you're rather amused than offended, as it is NOT (!) my intention to upset anybody. I just have a question that I translate as good as I can to English and post it here.

Mabe somebody knows. But thanks again for your answer.

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:12 am

bamboleate wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:23 pm
… if I click on the bracket and "do 5x arrow down", the line of the bracket touches the staff; so in ANY measurement unit there has to be a certain number or fraction, that is exactly that "5x arrow down" distance …
It is not that simple.
In Other Words: it depends.

If you look in
Preferences - Edit
then you can see that the Arrow Keys always will nudge items by a specific number of Pixels (the default is 1 Pixel).

But this means that your "5x arrow down" distance will differ, depending on the actual zoom percentage.

* What zoom percentage(s) are you using? Do you always view the Finale document at the same zoom percentage?
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

bamboleate
Posts: 19
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Post by bamboleate » Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:05 am

Aaah I see, thanks so much, we're getting closer! I left all that default (/preferences/edit/arrow keys nudge by 1 pixel), and I virtually always view at 100%, so if there aren't any strange multiplicators, I shift the bracket by 5 pixels down?

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:05 pm

bamboleate wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:05 am
… I left all that default (/preferences/edit/arrow keys nudge by 1 pixel), and I virtually always view at 100%, so if there aren't any strange multiplicators, I shift the bracket by 5 pixels down?
Indeed we are getting closer, but … it is not that simple (sorry!)

You tell that you always view at 100 %.

Then, it only depends on the actual scaling of the layout - which can be different in different pages of the same document.
The scaling can even be different in different staves of the same document (think e. g. a score with solo instrument, on a smaller staff - and piano, on a bigger Grand Staff).

* Do you always create all new documents from the very same template?

* Do you use linked parts - or do you only ever create scores?

* Do you never, ever resize individual pages?

Anyway, when the actual document is open, take a good look at the document’s default page formatting.
This is the default formatting when new pages are added.
Document menu > Page Format > …

On the already existing pages it is possible to override the default formatting.
This is by design, and what users have requested.

To make sure that everything is formatted with the default settings for new pages:
Page Layout Tool.
Page Layout menu > Redefine Pages > All Pages of Current Part/Score

If there is a page that is formatted differently from the default (and if that different formatting is intended), then you will have to use the Resize Tool to examine the formatting, that is
- the Page Scaling
- the System Scaling
- the Staff Scaling
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

bamboleate
Posts: 19
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Finale Version: 26
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Post by bamboleate » Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:59 pm

* Do you always create all new documents from the very same template?
yes
* Do you use linked parts - or do you only ever create scores?
I only ever create scores with that template.
* Do you never, ever resize individual pages?
No, I hardly ever resize individual pages. If I do, it's at the end of the process so I would fit a lead sheet on one page for example, and by doing so, individual bracket adjustments were translated correctly, so I wonder why you ask..

Page scaling is 100% ... most of the time. I do not mind the occasional edit to make it look right...
If it were more than 50% of the times right, I'd be happy.

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:35 pm

bamboleate wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:59 pm
… I hardly ever resize individual pages. If I do, it's at the end of the process so I would fit a lead sheet on one page for example, and by doing so, individual bracket adjustments were translated correctly, so I wonder why you ask …
The reason why I ask about your resizing of individual pages, is your own question.

You asked:
“… how much "5x arrow down" translates to how many inches, centimetres, pt, EVPU …”

- so that you could enter the desired value into the document settings.

I am still trying to find the precise translation of your "5x arrow down" (= 5 Pixels down) into actual Measurement Units (e. g. EVPUs), but I can not do so without more info from you.

You tell that “… individual bracket adjustments were translated correctly …”.
If I understand you correctly, this means that you always make your "5x arrow down" adjustment before you resize an individual page.

If you attach your template here
- or attach a screen shot of your settings in {Page Format for Score} -
then I can answer your question.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

bamboleate
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:50 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by bamboleate » Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:49 pm

You tell that “… individual bracket adjustments were translated correctly …”.
If I understand you correctly, this means that you always make your "5x arrow down" adjustment before you resize an individual page.
Yes, as I stated, I occasionally resize pages, but only after I can determine what has to fit the page.

I cannot thank you enough for your patience, if only I could serve you better info, this would be solved already, but I'm too much of an end user to do so without your help. Thanks again!

PS I apologize for the double barline at the end of the "piece", hahaha
Attachments
Endings.jpeg

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:44 pm

Thanks for the screen shot of the Page Format dialog.

I can see that the resulting scaling is 85 %.
And I can see that your default Measurement Units are set to Inches.

Thus, "5x arrow down" (= 5 Pixels) translates to 0.08333 Inches.

I hope that this answers your question?


By The Way:
In your first post you wrote that the ending brackets should be attached to the staff.

I may be dense (and I may not fully understand your thoughts), but to me it sounds like the values for
{Height of Bracket}
and
{Length of Front Hook}
should be the same value (?)
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

bamboleate
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:50 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Mac

Post by bamboleate » Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:21 pm

I gladly enter the denseness competition, as you're no match for me I'm afraid.
I'm sure that I could have saved you lots of trouble by asking the question right, but here we are after lots of back and forth and for those who read along:

-Chords collide with repeat brackets and chords shouldn't be any further from the staff imho, so let's move the repeat bracket

- If I click on the bracket and move it 5x arrow down it does not collide with the chord and touches the barline.

- As Mr Thomsen pointed out that translates after all this to 0.08333 inches, so the answer to what I should input in /document/document options/repeats/repeat endings*/height of brackets/ is...

*(there's a button on bottom right of the window)

*drumroll*

0.25 inches. That easy huh?

I'm pretty sure that now the problem is much clearer, the solutions can also be much easier, but I'm happy with the result and FINALE, uh I mean FINALLY I don't need to edit allllll the brackets I write. Thank you so much!

Edit: I cannot close the topic or mark it as solved, right?

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