I know that Finale users ask about figured bass notation every now and again, but I haven't found anything on the forum that answers my questions.
Firstly, I have written a baroque-style composition and would like to put figures under the bass part. I've loaded the chord suffix library, but am unsure how to use it properly.
Secondly, I have a few chords which seem to defy analysis (!!). How can I get Finale (2005) to analyse them and insert the appropriate figured bass symbols? Is this in fact possible?
figured bass and chord analysis
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
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Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
1. The library Figured Bass is a Chord Suffix library.
So you access the Figured Bass symbols via the Chord Tool.
The library uses the font Times New Roman for the chord suffixes, so the Figured Bass symbols will look best if you also choose
Times New Roman (or another serif font, e. g. Capitals) for the display of the chord root:
Options menu > Document Options > Fonts > Chord > Symbol
If you want the Chord Roots to display as Roman Numerals, go to
Chord menu > Chord Style
and choose the style "Roman".
You can enter the chord symbols in all the same ways you enter other chord symbols:
- with Chord metatools
- with "Type Into Score"
- with "Manual Input"
- &c.
My own favorite entry method is "Type Into Score".
Here is a short "Type Into Score" example in the key of C major (the notes in the bass clef staff are C, C, B, C):
C (first chord is a C major...)
5 (...triad...)
Tab (...moving to the next chord...)
d (...which is a D minor...)
2 (...tetrad in third inversion...)
Tab (...moving to the next chord...)
G (...which is a G major...)
65 (...tetrad in first inversion...)
Tab (...moving to the next chord...)
C (...which is a C major...)
5 (...triad)
Note that you must type the chord roots as 'C', 'd', 'G', even if you have chosen the chord style "Roman".
Finale will automatically change the root display to "Roman Numeral display" when you leave the chord.
If you don't want the chord roots to display at all, hide them with the Mass Edit Tool (when you are done entering all the chords):
Mass Edit menu > Change > Chord Assignments...
By The Way:
The library Figured Bass is not your only option.
You can also create your own Chord Suffix library, using your own fonts.
There are even fonts that have special font characters made for Figured Bass.
If you download and install the Sibelius 5 demo, you will get many useful fonts for free.
You can e. g. find some beautifully designed "slashed number characters" in the font Opus Text.
And there are fonts made especially for Figured Bass.
With fonts made for Figured Bass you can also enter the Figured Bass as lyrics, using the Lyrics Tool.
2. If you "have a few chords which seem to defy analysis", then I seriously doubt that a computer program can analyse them.
Analyzing music can be too complicated for a computer program, since there sometimes is more than one solution/interpretation of the context.
In Other Words:
The analysis sometimes depends, not only of the chord itself, but also of the musical context, of the surrounding music.
My guess is that the best you can expect from a computer program, is a list of several possible interpretations.
Send me an e-mail with your file, and I shall be happy to suggest Figured Bass for the "problem chords".
Peter
So you access the Figured Bass symbols via the Chord Tool.
The library uses the font Times New Roman for the chord suffixes, so the Figured Bass symbols will look best if you also choose
Times New Roman (or another serif font, e. g. Capitals) for the display of the chord root:
Options menu > Document Options > Fonts > Chord > Symbol
If you want the Chord Roots to display as Roman Numerals, go to
Chord menu > Chord Style
and choose the style "Roman".
You can enter the chord symbols in all the same ways you enter other chord symbols:
- with Chord metatools
- with "Type Into Score"
- with "Manual Input"
- &c.
My own favorite entry method is "Type Into Score".
Here is a short "Type Into Score" example in the key of C major (the notes in the bass clef staff are C, C, B, C):
C (first chord is a C major...)
5 (...triad...)
Tab (...moving to the next chord...)
d (...which is a D minor...)
2 (...tetrad in third inversion...)
Tab (...moving to the next chord...)
G (...which is a G major...)
65 (...tetrad in first inversion...)
Tab (...moving to the next chord...)
C (...which is a C major...)
5 (...triad)
Note that you must type the chord roots as 'C', 'd', 'G', even if you have chosen the chord style "Roman".
Finale will automatically change the root display to "Roman Numeral display" when you leave the chord.
If you don't want the chord roots to display at all, hide them with the Mass Edit Tool (when you are done entering all the chords):
Mass Edit menu > Change > Chord Assignments...
By The Way:
The library Figured Bass is not your only option.
You can also create your own Chord Suffix library, using your own fonts.
There are even fonts that have special font characters made for Figured Bass.
If you download and install the Sibelius 5 demo, you will get many useful fonts for free.
You can e. g. find some beautifully designed "slashed number characters" in the font Opus Text.
And there are fonts made especially for Figured Bass.
With fonts made for Figured Bass you can also enter the Figured Bass as lyrics, using the Lyrics Tool.
2. If you "have a few chords which seem to defy analysis", then I seriously doubt that a computer program can analyse them.
Analyzing music can be too complicated for a computer program, since there sometimes is more than one solution/interpretation of the context.
In Other Words:
The analysis sometimes depends, not only of the chord itself, but also of the musical context, of the surrounding music.
My guess is that the best you can expect from a computer program, is a list of several possible interpretations.
Send me an e-mail with your file, and I shall be happy to suggest Figured Bass for the "problem chords".
Peter
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Thanks for your help, Peter.
I've managed to analyse the unusual chords, so I won't have to get you to check them out for me. However, I wanted to ask you about the Sibelius opus fonts.
I dowloaded the Sibelius 5 demo, but have not been able to isolate the opus fonts (I haven't really had time yet). Where are they found? Can they be removed (copied?) from the Sibelius program and installed in Windows fonts? The Sibelius demo is interesting, but I wasn't planning on keeping it on my computer.
I've been using a font called FiguredBassMH, created by Matthew Hindson, which alligns the numerals correctly, but lacks the + symbol for intervals which are raised a semitone. So I'm hoping that the opus fonts at least include this particular symbol in addition to the slashes.
I know that there are excellent fonts commercially available, but since I don't normally need figured bass symbols, it seems an unneccessary expense.
I've managed to analyse the unusual chords, so I won't have to get you to check them out for me. However, I wanted to ask you about the Sibelius opus fonts.
I dowloaded the Sibelius 5 demo, but have not been able to isolate the opus fonts (I haven't really had time yet). Where are they found? Can they be removed (copied?) from the Sibelius program and installed in Windows fonts? The Sibelius demo is interesting, but I wasn't planning on keeping it on my computer.
I've been using a font called FiguredBassMH, created by Matthew Hindson, which alligns the numerals correctly, but lacks the + symbol for intervals which are raised a semitone. So I'm hoping that the opus fonts at least include this particular symbol in addition to the slashes.
I know that there are excellent fonts commercially available, but since I don't normally need figured bass symbols, it seems an unneccessary expense.
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Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Florio,
I my not be able to help here, since I'm on Mac OS.
If I Recall Correctly, you are on Windows.
I installed the Sibelius 5 demo in my Applications folder.
The first time I double-clicked the Sibelius 5 demo, the Sibelius fonts were automatically installed.
I could see the fonts in the font menus, and I was able to find them in one of the Fonts folders.
I found them in the Fonts folder in my - individual user's - Home folder.
Did you install the Sibelius 5 demo?
Did you double-click the demo to launch it?
Peter
I my not be able to help here, since I'm on Mac OS.
If I Recall Correctly, you are on Windows.
I installed the Sibelius 5 demo in my Applications folder.
The first time I double-clicked the Sibelius 5 demo, the Sibelius fonts were automatically installed.
I could see the fonts in the font menus, and I was able to find them in one of the Fonts folders.
I found them in the Fonts folder in my - individual user's - Home folder.
Did you install the Sibelius 5 demo?
Did you double-click the demo to launch it?
Peter
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
As always, many thanks for your help.
Yes, I do have Windows (XP) as my OS. And I have installed and launched the demo version of Sibelius 5.
After reading your last message, I checked the Windows font library and saw that the opus fonts are in fact installed. They are exactly what I was looking for. I'm just hoping they won't be removed when I eventually remove the Sibelius demo.
Have you actually used the opus figured bass font yourself with Finale? I'll try experimenting with it later, but am already wondering how to align two or more numerals/symbols accurately under a note. Manually, with the mouse or arrow keys? Do you have any idea?
Florio
Yes, I do have Windows (XP) as my OS. And I have installed and launched the demo version of Sibelius 5.
After reading your last message, I checked the Windows font library and saw that the opus fonts are in fact installed. They are exactly what I was looking for. I'm just hoping they won't be removed when I eventually remove the Sibelius demo.
Have you actually used the opus figured bass font yourself with Finale? I'll try experimenting with it later, but am already wondering how to align two or more numerals/symbols accurately under a note. Manually, with the mouse or arrow keys? Do you have any idea?
Florio
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Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Florio,
I'm not sure I understand your question.
You say the you are "wondering how to align two or more numerals/symbols accurately under a note. Manually, with the mouse or arrow keys?"
Are you talking about the Chord Tool?
Or are you talking about the Lyrics Tool?
Please be more specific.
Peter
I'm not sure I understand your question.
You say the you are "wondering how to align two or more numerals/symbols accurately under a note. Manually, with the mouse or arrow keys?"
Are you talking about the Chord Tool?
Or are you talking about the Lyrics Tool?
Please be more specific.
Peter
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
I was referring to the lyrics tool. I have sort of managed to align the symbols/figures, e.g.,
6
#4
2
by pressing ENTER after each one, and then reducing the interlinear space to 75%. I don't know if there is another way of obtaining the same results.
A new problem that has arisen (!!) is the fact that I cannot reproduce a slashed 5 or 6. For some reason, Ctrl + 6 and Ctrl + 5 (for that matter any symbol obtained by pressing the Control key) won't work in Finale 2005, even if there are no problems obtaining the relevant symbols in the demo version of Sibelius 5.
6
#4
2
by pressing ENTER after each one, and then reducing the interlinear space to 75%. I don't know if there is another way of obtaining the same results.
A new problem that has arisen (!!) is the fact that I cannot reproduce a slashed 5 or 6. For some reason, Ctrl + 6 and Ctrl + 5 (for that matter any symbol obtained by pressing the Control key) won't work in Finale 2005, even if there are no problems obtaining the relevant symbols in the demo version of Sibelius 5.
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Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
If I understand you correctly, you are using the Lyrics Tool's "Type Into Score" mode, not "Click Assignment"?
In the Mac version of Finale I can switch between the "verses" with Alt+UpArrow and Alt+DownArrow.
An example:
6
5
goes like this:
(beginning in Verse 1)
6 (entering the '6')
Alt+DownArrow (switching to Verse 2)
5 (entering the '5' in Verse 2)
Perhaps it's Ctrl+UpArrow and Ctrl+DownArrow in Win Finale?
Slashed 5 is character #149 in the Opus Figured Bass font, so I suppose that you in Windows should hold down Alt, and type 0149 on the NumPad.
You can find another slashed 5 as character #236 (hold down Alt, and type 0236).
Slashed 6 is character #171 (Alt+0171).
Since I use Mac OS, I don't know the meaning of "Ctrl+6 and Ctrl+5" in Windows.
I'm sorry I can't help here.
Peter
In the Mac version of Finale I can switch between the "verses" with Alt+UpArrow and Alt+DownArrow.
An example:
6
5
goes like this:
(beginning in Verse 1)
6 (entering the '6')
Alt+DownArrow (switching to Verse 2)
5 (entering the '5' in Verse 2)
Perhaps it's Ctrl+UpArrow and Ctrl+DownArrow in Win Finale?
Slashed 5 is character #149 in the Opus Figured Bass font, so I suppose that you in Windows should hold down Alt, and type 0149 on the NumPad.
You can find another slashed 5 as character #236 (hold down Alt, and type 0236).
Slashed 6 is character #171 (Alt+0171).
Since I use Mac OS, I don't know the meaning of "Ctrl+6 and Ctrl+5" in Windows.
I'm sorry I can't help here.
Peter
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Thanks once again for your help, Peter.
Following your suggestion, I've tried using the numerical codes to create the slashed 5 and 6, but nothing happens. I really don't know what to do at this stage (rather than lash out and buy expensive figured bass fonts!!).
I just can't understand why the Control + 5 (or 6) won't work in Finale, yet functions perfectly in the Sibelius demo. If you can think of another possible solution, please let me know.
Florio
Following your suggestion, I've tried using the numerical codes to create the slashed 5 and 6, but nothing happens. I really don't know what to do at this stage (rather than lash out and buy expensive figured bass fonts!!).
I just can't understand why the Control + 5 (or 6) won't work in Finale, yet functions perfectly in the Sibelius demo. If you can think of another possible solution, please let me know.
Florio
-
Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Other possible solutions:
1. Use the Lyric Tool's "Click Assignment" mode:
Lyrics menu > Edit Lyrics...
When the window Edit Lyrics is open, you also have the Text menu, and in the Text menu you have
Text menu > Inserts > Symbol...
In the dialog box Symbol Selection you can see all the characters in the font, as well as each character's code number.
*)
2. Use the Chord Tool as described previously.
As I see it, you shouldn't have to "lash out and buy expensive figured bass fonts".
Peter
*) There is a free Windows utility called AllChars.
It has a function similar to Finale's dialog box Symbol Selection (and the Character Map program in Windows), only it makes special characters easily accessible.
URL:
http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Util ... Chars.html
1. Use the Lyric Tool's "Click Assignment" mode:
Lyrics menu > Edit Lyrics...
When the window Edit Lyrics is open, you also have the Text menu, and in the Text menu you have
Text menu > Inserts > Symbol...
In the dialog box Symbol Selection you can see all the characters in the font, as well as each character's code number.
*)
2. Use the Chord Tool as described previously.
As I see it, you shouldn't have to "lash out and buy expensive figured bass fonts".
Peter
*) There is a free Windows utility called AllChars.
It has a function similar to Finale's dialog box Symbol Selection (and the Character Map program in Windows), only it makes special characters easily accessible.
URL:
http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Util ... Chars.html
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Sorry to bring back such an old thread, but maybe you can help me: I need the opposite, that is, to develop the figures in a figured bass clef score into the corresponding notes on the treble clef. Is there any way of doing this more or less automatically (I make too many errors and it is very time consuming). I use Finale 2007
Thank you!
Thank you!
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Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
I'm sorry joseluis, but the translation from Figured Bass to written notes is a task that a computer program doesn't do very well, because the voicing doesn't get good.
Just listen to Finale's playback of chord symbols, and you will hear what I mean.
Translation from Figured Bass to written notes is best done by a human brain.
Just listen to Finale's playback of chord symbols, and you will hear what I mean.
Translation from Figured Bass to written notes is best done by a human brain.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
