Change page layout without adjusting position of piece title and page number

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5notechord
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Post by 5notechord » Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:07 pm

When I change the page layout by increasing the distance between the top staff and the top of the page, the page number and the title (on page two and beyond) move along with it. The workaround I have found is to then manually place the page numbers and title where I want them in the score, but that in turn moves there position unnecessarily high on the linked parts. The workaround I have found for THAT is to unlink those two texts from all parts before adjusting them on the score.

Is this the correct way to get what I want, or am I misunderstanding some basic concept of page layout that allows one to adjust the top staff distance from the border of the page without moving the page numbers and piece title?
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:06 pm

It sounds like you have the piece title and page number tied to the staff rather than the page. Instead, they should be relative to the page margins. Create a document with the setup wizard to see how to do it the right way.

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:12 am

5notechord wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:07 pm
… When I change the page layout by increasing the distance between the top staff and the top of the page, the page number and the title (on page two and beyond) move along with it …
5notechord wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:07 pm
… am I misunderstanding some basic concept of page layout that allows one to adjust the top staff distance from the border of the page without moving the page numbers and piece title? …
If I understand you correctly, on Page 2 and onwards - at the top of each page - you have a text block containing Title and Page Number - right?

Some publishers prefer to put that text block at the bottom of each page.
Just saying.

You probably already know that the Title and the Page Number can be entered as text inserts (= displaying differently on different pages, in different Finale documents).
Some publishers prefer to, also display the total number of pages - which, too, can be entered as a text insert.

When - in the Text Tool - a text block handle is selected, you can hit Shift-Return, to open the Frame Attributes where you can edit the text block’s {display settings}.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

5notechord
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Post by 5notechord » Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:43 am

motet wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 10:06 pm
It sounds like you have the piece title and page number tied to the staff rather than the page. Instead, they should be relative to the page margins. Create a document with the setup wizard to see how to do it the right way.
No, they are attached to the page margins and that is the problem. It makes it so I have collisions between elements of the top staff of the page and the title/page numbers. That means either manually moving down the music or manually moving up the page number and title (which moves it on every page). I am looking for a way to increase the margins for the music but keep the margins for the text. Is that not possible?
Finale 27.4 on a macbook pro retina, 15 inch 2014, osx 11.7.10

5notechord
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Post by 5notechord » Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:49 am

Peter Thomsen wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:12 am
5notechord wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:07 pm
… When I change the page layout by increasing the distance between the top staff and the top of the page, the page number and the title (on page two and beyond) move along with it …
5notechord wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 9:07 pm
… am I misunderstanding some basic concept of page layout that allows one to adjust the top staff distance from the border of the page without moving the page numbers and piece title? …
If I understand you correctly, on Page 2 and onwards - at the top of each page - you have a text block containing Title and Page Number - right?

Some publishers prefer to put that text block at the bottom of each page.
Just saying.

You probably already know that the Title and the Page Number can be entered as text inserts (= displaying differently on different pages, in different Finale documents).
Some publishers prefer to, also display the total number of pages - which, too, can be entered as a text insert.

When - in the Text Tool - a text block handle is selected, you can hit Shift-Return, to open the Frame Attributes where you can edit the text block’s {display settings}.
I have the default title and page number on each page. I do know how the text inserts work, and sometimes use them to put the page numbers on the bottom in the middle, for example when I don't know how the conductor will print the pages. I have never been published as of yet, all of my engraving is for ensembles so it's my choice how I display the page numbers and titles.

I very often have collisions in the 2nd page and beyond of the parts as well. I would like to know if there is a way to manipulate the title and the page number to avoid those collisions so I don't end up having to adjust the top staves on 20-30 parts, something I very often end up doing.
Finale 27.4 on a macbook pro retina, 15 inch 2014, osx 11.7.10

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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:16 pm

I'm not sure I understand your dilemma, but I would caution against moving page numbers individually. When someone flips through the score looking for a particular page, the number shouldn't be hopping up and down as they flip. Pick something a half inch or so from the top and side page margins. If "the page number and the title (on page two and beyond) move along with it" then they're not set relative to the page margin.

The system margins, which affect where the music appears but not the page numbers, can be different between score and parts, but I've never found that they really need to be.

Perhaps you can post a file containing a few pages of your piece, since I'm having trouble understanding your dilemma.

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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:05 pm

Rereading your first post, though, if you want to have different offsets for score and parts and the parts are OK, unlinking the page number from the parts and then changing it in the score is indeed the way to go, and should in fact be easy.

5notechord
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Post by 5notechord » Wed Jul 10, 2024 8:55 pm

motet wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:16 pm
I'm not sure I understand your dilemma, but I would caution against moving page numbers individually. When someone flips through the score looking for a particular page, the number shouldn't be hopping up and down as they flip. Pick something a half inch or so from the top and side page margins. If "the page number and the title (on page two and beyond) move along with it" then they're not set relative to the page margin.

The system margins, which affect where the music appears but not the page numbers, can be different between score and parts, but I've never found that they really need to be.

Perhaps you can post a file containing a few pages of your piece, since I'm having trouble understanding your dilemma.
Ok so I guess what I want to know is how to distance the system margin from the top of the page, but keep the page number and title in place. I would like every system to start at the same distance from the top of the page, something that page margins does neatly. But the problem is that moving page margins moves the page numbers and title.

I feel like I cant be the only person that has this problem. There is often music that goes high above the top staff (flute), and large indications at the top of the score. Do people just manually adjust the systems on every page with collisions?

Attached is an example of a score. As you can see, on page 4 there is a collision between the rehearsal marking and the title (this is a tame score, I often have scores with tons of collisions like this, usually with the page numbers and rehearsal markings at the beginning of systems, so imagine it's the case here). I would like to move the system down away from the title and the page number, and have every page's top system moved to the same height for visual harmony, and so I don't have to go through the score and manually move each individual offending system.
Last edited by 5notechord on Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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5notechord
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Post by 5notechord » Wed Jul 10, 2024 8:56 pm

motet wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:05 pm
Rereading your first post, though, if you want to have different offsets for score and parts and the parts are OK, unlinking the page number from the parts and then changing it in the score is indeed the way to go, and should in fact be easy.
ok. still I tried to clarify my situation in the above reply, in this case just for the score, not the parts.
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:40 pm

Make the page numbers and title relative to the edge of the paper rather than the margins.
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5notechord
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Post by 5notechord » Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:46 pm

motet wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:40 pm
Make the page numbers and title relative to the edge of the paper rather than the margins.
Thats what I needed, thanks a bunch! Last thing, is this something I can automatically have checked in every new score? In general if I have my score preferences, how can I have them as the default for every score? Is there a guide, a post or youtube video that explains this?

Thanks
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Jul 10, 2024 9:50 pm

You would need to make a template to create your pieces from that has the page numbers set up this way. Or, instead of a template, just a .musx file that you can copy and fill in each time.

5notechord
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Post by 5notechord » Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:11 am

Thanks, I will look into templates.
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