Multiple Movements in one Document
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
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I'm running Mac 2012. I am attempting to create a setting of a chant, which will take up about a third of the opening page of the work .. then, on the rest of the first page, I would like to start the motet built on said chant in SATB voicing. Since the chant is constructed by using stemless eighth and quarter notes, placed in long (page wide) measures with time sigs like 36/8, or whatever is needed ...this is a big change from what the rest of the piece has to be. I think it's probably dealing with two movements in one document ... but try as I may, I can't seem to make the first page look the way I want ... I.e, five or so lines of chant, then a space, then a normal Choral score for the rest of the first page. Attached (well, I tried)is the beginning few lines of the chant part of the first page ... haven't got a clue as to how to begin with the rest of the piece after the chant lines are complete. Help!
If you can help .... I'd appreciate it ...
thanks, Dean
If you can help .... I'd appreciate it ...
thanks, Dean
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6678
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Welcome to the forum!BASS01123 wrote:…Attached (well, I tried)is the beginning few lines of the chant part of the first page ... haven't got a clue as to how to begin with the rest of the piece after the chant lines are complete…
It looks like you did not attach the Finale document.
Before you can attach a Finale document in this forum, you must compress it, e. g. as a .zip file.
And the file size must not be more than max. 100 KB.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- Peter Thomsen
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Dean M. Estabrook,
Take a look at the attached demo document.
Is that what you have in mind?
Take a look at the attached demo document.
Is that what you have in mind?
- Attachments
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- SalveRegina.mus.zip
- (4.95 KiB) Downloaded 181 times
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- Peter Thomsen
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- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
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1) If you look at my demo document in Scroll View, you will see that there are four staves throughout the document.
In the first 5 systems three of the staves are removed via a custom staff style I have called "Force Hide Staff (Collapse)".
2) In the first 4 systems the remaining staff (= the Tenor staff) is set to, not display time signatures,
via a custom staff style I have called "Chant Staff".
3) In the 5th system I have made the Tenor staff, not display anything at all, via a custom staff style I have called "Hide Everything".
This system (= only one measure) serves as space before Movement 2.
The movement title is an expression attached to this "non-displaying" staff/measure.
4) You can study my custom staff styles by going to
Staff menu > Define Staff Styles…
Tip: If you, in the Staff menu, select "Show Staff Styles" and "Show Staff Style Names", my demo document will be more clear.
(Staff styles and staff style names are only shown when you are in the Staff Tool)
5) In the last measure of the chant (= in the 4th system), in the Measure Attributes, the right barline is set to be a so called Final Barline.
6) In the last measure before Movement 2 (= in the "non-displaying" system), in the Measure Attributes, the option "Hide Cautionary Clefs, Key and Time Signatures" is selected.
I hope that this is clear?
If not, ask again.
In the first 5 systems three of the staves are removed via a custom staff style I have called "Force Hide Staff (Collapse)".
2) In the first 4 systems the remaining staff (= the Tenor staff) is set to, not display time signatures,
via a custom staff style I have called "Chant Staff".
3) In the 5th system I have made the Tenor staff, not display anything at all, via a custom staff style I have called "Hide Everything".
This system (= only one measure) serves as space before Movement 2.
The movement title is an expression attached to this "non-displaying" staff/measure.
4) You can study my custom staff styles by going to
Staff menu > Define Staff Styles…
Tip: If you, in the Staff menu, select "Show Staff Styles" and "Show Staff Style Names", my demo document will be more clear.
(Staff styles and staff style names are only shown when you are in the Staff Tool)
5) In the last measure of the chant (= in the 4th system), in the Measure Attributes, the right barline is set to be a so called Final Barline.
6) In the last measure before Movement 2 (= in the "non-displaying" system), in the Measure Attributes, the option "Hide Cautionary Clefs, Key and Time Signatures" is selected.
I hope that this is clear?
If not, ask again.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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- Posts: 14
- Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:22 am
- Finale Version: Mac2012
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Hi Peter .... upon studying what you did, inre this action:
In the first 5 systems three of the staves are removed via a custom staff style I have called "Force Hide Staff (Collapse)".
I don't understand how you accomplished the "collapsing" technique ...
Dean
In the first 5 systems three of the staves are removed via a custom staff style I have called "Force Hide Staff (Collapse)".
I don't understand how you accomplished the "collapsing" technique ...
Dean
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6678
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Hi Dean,
1) Open my demo document "Salve Regina.mus".
2) Staff Tool.
Staff menu > Define Staff Styles…
3) In the pop up menu of Available Staff Styles (= the staff styles I created for this document),
choose "Force Hide Staff(Collapse)".
You can see how my staff style is defined.
When I had created this staff style, I applied it to the S, A, and B staves in the first 5 systems.
The staff style removed the staves from the first 5 systems, leaving only the T staff (= the Chant Staff).
4) Similarly I used a custom made staff style I called "Chant Staff", to hide time signatures from the T staff
in the first 4 systems.
5) Similarly I used a custom made staff style I called "Hide Everything", to make the T staff display nothing
in the 5th system.
1) Open my demo document "Salve Regina.mus".
2) Staff Tool.
Staff menu > Define Staff Styles…
3) In the pop up menu of Available Staff Styles (= the staff styles I created for this document),
choose "Force Hide Staff(Collapse)".
You can see how my staff style is defined.
When I had created this staff style, I applied it to the S, A, and B staves in the first 5 systems.
The staff style removed the staves from the first 5 systems, leaving only the T staff (= the Chant Staff).
4) Similarly I used a custom made staff style I called "Chant Staff", to hide time signatures from the T staff
in the first 4 systems.
5) Similarly I used a custom made staff style I called "Hide Everything", to make the T staff display nothing
in the 5th system.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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Isn't it much easier just to start off with four staves throughout and simply hide the unwanted staves in the first systems with the staff tool? And then hide the time signature in those measures using the measure tool for each one? Saves a lot of time over creating staff styles, etc.
Also, if Dean wants to end up with stemless noteheads, as he mentioned in his OP, he'll need to use quarters, not eighths (because the flags are still visible with eighths when you hide the stems).
Also, if Dean wants to end up with stemless noteheads, as he mentioned in his OP, he'll need to use quarters, not eighths (because the flags are still visible with eighths when you hide the stems).
- Peter Thomsen
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In which Finale version is it that "the flags are still visible with eighths, when you hide the stems"?Paul Inwood wrote:…if Dean wants to end up with stemless noteheads, as he mentioned in his OP, he'll need to use quarters, not eighths (because the flags are still visible with eighths when you hide the stems).
Dean is using Finale 2011.
In my own copy of Finale 2011 I am unable to duplicate the problem that "the flags are still visible with eighths, when you hide the stems".
I tried to hide the stems in two different ways:
a) with a staff style (Stemless Notes),
b) with the Special Tools Tool's sub-tool Custom Stem Tool, replacing the stem with an empty shape, created in the Shape Designer.
In both cases the flags disappeared with the stems.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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Absolutely correct. But there are two other methods, neither of which removes the flags:Peter Thomsen wrote:In which Finale version is it that "the flags are still visible with eighths, when you hide the stems"?Paul Inwood wrote:…if Dean wants to end up with stemless noteheads, as he mentioned in his OP, he'll need to use quarters, not eighths (because the flags are still visible with eighths when you hide the stems).
Dean is using Finale 2011.
In my own copy of Finale 2011 I am unable to duplicate the problem that "the flags are still visible with eighths, when you hide the stems".
I tried to hide the stems in two different ways:
a) with a staff style (Stemless Notes),
b) with the Special Tools Tool's sub-tool Custom Stem Tool, replacing the stem with an empty shape, created in the Shape Designer.
In both cases the flags disappeared with the stems.
(1) Special Tools: Stem Length Tool (the quickest and easiest way to remove stems: just drag the stem handle to vanishing point)
(2) Document Options: Stems, then change all Stem Lengths to zero (You wouldn't use that in the present case because not all the score will be stemless)
NB for anyone who was going to try this: the Special Tools' sub-tool Custom Stem Tool replaces the stem with an empty shape, but if the eighth note is beamed the beam remains.
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Looking at this screen shot ... I have a sort of mix and match as to when to beam, and when not to beam ... anyone know the lastest rules as to when to properly do this ..
Thanks,
Dean
oh well, the Zip was too large ... sorry about that ...
Thanks,
Dean
oh well, the Zip was too large ... sorry about that ...
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Thanks for the restart thought .... why did I not try that? ... it worked! Next question: I'm working on a document with 5 staffs ... SSATBB ... How am I able to have say, the men's staves in 3/4 meter, and the women's in 6/8 at the same time?
Thanks,
Dean
Thanks,
Dean
- miker
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I would put them all in 6/8, with the men set to display as 3/4. You can adjust the beaming options as desired.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
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"I would put them all in 6/8, with the men set to display as 3/4. You can adjust the beaming options as desired."
Yes, I was going to adjust the beaming to do that, but how do you "set to display as 3/4? " Besides with the beaming, that is ...
thanks for the response ...
Dean
Yes, I was going to adjust the beaming to do that, but how do you "set to display as 3/4? " Besides with the beaming, that is ...
thanks for the response ...
Dean
- miker
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I'm wrong. (Computer is in the shop.) You have to allow Independent Time Signature, in the staff attributes screen.
Sorry for the confusion.
Sorry for the confusion.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- michelp
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Assuming that the basic time signature is 3/4, go to the Staff Attributes of each staff you want in 6/8 and select Independent Elements -> Time Signature.
Then use the time signature tool for each of these staves to define 6/8 (if you like 2 groups of 3 beamed eight notes, define the 6/8 with 2 dotted quarter notes).
If needed, click on More choices -> Use a different Time Signature for Display.
PS : for the sake of clarity, it would be better to create a new thread each time you have a new question.
PS 2 : I realize that miker was faster in giving you the same answer.
Then use the time signature tool for each of these staves to define 6/8 (if you like 2 groups of 3 beamed eight notes, define the 6/8 with 2 dotted quarter notes).
If needed, click on More choices -> Use a different Time Signature for Display.
PS : for the sake of clarity, it would be better to create a new thread each time you have a new question.
PS 2 : I realize that miker was faster in giving you the same answer.
Last edited by michelp on Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.5, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
MacOsX 12.7.5, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua