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Drum chart in a score

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Drum chart in a score

Postby ebjazz » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:53 pm

Hi; I have the latest version on Win 10.
How do I write a drum chart that has slashes with figures on the top of the staff (G in treble clef)?
I think it's layers but I can't get both layers to appear.

Thanks!!~

Eb
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby zuill » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:19 pm

Is this the idea?

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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby ebjazz » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:32 pm

Yes! Tell me how please!
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby zuill » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:44 pm

If you are using the standard Drum Set Percussion Layout, there is a Rhythm Cues item that sits on a high B. I moved it to G, as you suggested, but it lands so that the bottom of the slash notehead sits a bit below the top line. So, I made it land on A. You make the change to the position by going to the Layout (when in the Score Manager). and dragging the handle provided for the position of the note for Rhythm Cues. I entered the notes. The stems were down, since there were no real notes in Layer 1 behind the big slashes. I flipped the stems and hid the ledger lines (since A has them).

For the Staff Style, I created a new one, and set the slashes for Layer 1, and then checked the option to show notes in other Layers. I then put the cues in Layer 2.

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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby ebjazz » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:09 pm

Thanks Zuill! I think it worked. I don't know the Percussion Layout thing, how do I get that?
I've got it working because I selected :Allow notes in other Layers" At least I think I did.
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby zuill » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:10 am

In the Score Manager, select the percussion staff in the list. In the box below for Notation Style, it should have Percussion selected. Click the Settings button to the right. That opens the list of available Layouts. Drum Set should be selected. Click Edit and scroll down to Rhythm Cues and select that with the mouse. The Staff Position, by Default, is 13, which is the first ledger line above the staff. You can change that to whatever you want by the number, or by dragging the handle.

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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby ebjazz » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:19 pm

Hi Zuill; I was experimenting with this and now there are missing bar lines in the Drum part!
How do I get them back my friend??

Eb
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby zuill » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:36 am

Not sure what setting you changed to do that. Besides the percussion layout, where else did you go?

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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby ebjazz » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:19 am

I went to score manager and selected perc on the drop down. Noticed missing bar lines and went back and selected standard notation. Still no bar lines.

I screwed up.
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby zuill » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:33 am

First off, Percussion should have already been the selection. If you had to choose Percussion, then the staff was not set up properly in the first place. If you can post the file here, I'm sure we can find what's up.

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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby ebjazz » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:30 pm

OK. Just tried to upload the score and it's too big.

Eb
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby zuill » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:22 pm

Are the barlines missing only in the drum staff?

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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby N Grossingink » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:27 pm

With the Staff Tool, double click on any measure in the drum staff. Is "Barlines" checked under "Items to Display"?
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby ebjazz » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:04 pm

Yes. I’ve done that.
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby zuill » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:33 pm

Staff Styles can hide barlines. Did you apply a staff style for that? Also, if it is not all measures, then Measure Attributes might be involved in just those measures. Have you applied any invisible barlines there? If not all the measures are involved, save a separate version of your file and just include the measures where the barlines are missing and maybe the file will be small enough to post here.

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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby elbsound » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:32 am

Last edited by elbsound on Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby zuill » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:46 pm

Those are intriguing blog articles, but hits in a drum part aren't discussed in either. I wonder if they might have an article giving those instructions.

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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby elbsound » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:02 pm

>but hits in a drum part aren't discussed in either.
You mean "hits on a percussion staff"?
Because the first blog article explains it exactly for a standard staff which can also be used for a drum part. Only the slash staff style is missing, but that's one simple step at the end.

Are you sure that in this topic a percussion staff is required?
Wouldn't a standard staff be fine too?
Unless there is midi/playback involved, a standard staff should be working too and you don't need to play with the complex percussion map/layout settings.

If a percussion staff is still required for playback, you could follow the third link above from the Finale manual.
You only need to use a notehead slightly higher and with the slash style notehead (which can be easily added in the percussion layout).
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby zuill » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:33 pm

The Drum Set Layout already has the Rhythm Cues included (it's the last item in the list). It is on the B5 line, which is above the staff, not sitting on the staff, as the G5 would be. Floating above the staff is often preferred, as it seems a bit less cluttered. The instructions in the Manual talk about modifying Layer 4 settings (if Layer 4 is chosen for the Cues, often referred to as Hits). Unfortunately, that then affects Layer 4 notes everywhere else. My preference is to simplify the process by using Jari's JW Change plugin. Once all the steps are entered, one can combine them all into one step by saving them in the Sequence Editor. Steps may include flipping stems, moving rests, hiding ledger lines, resizing, whatever.

The reason a normal Percussion staff (Drum Set for jazz and pop) is that there are often measures where one wants the complete written out notation. In fact, for playback purposes, one often enters notation that is then hidden behind the slash notation. The Rhythm Cues don't have a playback sound, however. One could create a custom entry in the Layout for hits that would play back, if need. The slash notehead is used in the Layout for quarters and smaller. If one changes regular notation to have the slash requires a little more work, so the Layout approach simplifies things.

Basically, using a Drum Set layout and the built in Rhythm Cues for drum hits is my preferred approach. I couldn't find an article for this, and the Manual article approach, as I mentioned earlier, might not be as desirable as it appears (regarding Layer 4 settings).

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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby zuill » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:03 pm

In thinking about copying a rhythm from another instrument, and then converting that to Rhythm Cues, I remembered that the JW Change plugin had a function for changing notes to a specific percussion note found in the selected Layout. I tried Rhythm Cues, with no success. The plugin worked for other selected percussion instruments (Snare, Cymbal, etc.). So, I am guessing this is a programing error. I suppose I should let Jari know. I will try it in a pre-64 bit version to see if it might be a new bug.

Zuill

P.S.: I tried in 2014.5 and still no Rhythm Cues. So, it looks like it has never worked.

P.P.S: I guess there isn't a way to report bugs in the plugins. It seems I had a way years ago, but I don't recall how.
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby ebjazz » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:48 pm

Tried everything suggested and no luck.
Attaching just the first page of the score.
The file thing is lame, it must be under 250mb. So it's now just 3 stave, the top one being drum set with the problems.

Thanks!!~

Eb
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Free Climb score page 1.musx
(230.21 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby zuill » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:59 pm

Easy fix, as I suspected. When in the Staff Tool, double click the bar above the staff showing that you have a Staff Style applied. In the definition for the Style, you'll see that Barlines is unchecked. Check that and save the Style. Now the barlines should show. If the bar above the staff doesn't show for Staff Styles, select that option in the Staff Menu.

Zuill

P.S.: I notice you haven't set the Drum staff as Drum Set, using the Drum Set Layout. For the future, that should be a much easier way to get proper Drum Set notation and playback.
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Re: Drum chart in a score

Postby ebjazz » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:58 pm

Thanks! Don't know how it got that way.
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