Stopwatch Pieces

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MowingDevil
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Stopwatch Pieces

Post by MowingDevil » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:05 am

For those who have done stopwatch pieces and have turned a staff into a bit of a time ruler, how do you make the little notches (below the staff line) which would indicate regular time values (e.g.. 0:10, 0:20, 0:30 etc)?

Re: Stopwatch Pieces

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Stopwatch Pieces

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:18 am

I am not sure I understand.
Is the following what you need?

Document menu > Edit Measure Number Regions…

In the pop up menu Style you can choose Time.
Mac OS X 10.13.6 (High Sierra), Finale user since 1996

MowingDevil
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Re: Stopwatch Pieces

Post by MowingDevil » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:38 am

Hi Peter,

No I'm not looking for that, I would like something more flexible, I can add the times w/ the text tool as need be. What I'm looking for is how to add dashes/lines not unlike an actual ruler. Something like this but below the staff. eg. a short line every 5 seconds that comes out of the bottom of the staff.
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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Stopwatch Pieces

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:13 pm

MowingDevil wrote:… something more flexible …
I am afraid I do not understand.

The better we understand, the better we can help.

In what way(s) are the options for Measure Number Regions not flexible enough?
Please explain.
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MowingDevil
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Re: Stopwatch Pieces

Post by MowingDevil » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:05 pm

I have been working w/o bars so I don't want to tie each system to time signatures, tempo etc. I suppose if I made the tempo 60 this would be fine. but some systems are going to be different lengths and I want to control the time that is displayed etc. There's graphic notation involved and I don't want to be tied the time at each bar because the barlines will be hidden. What I'm really after is the best way to add these dashes across an entire score and advice for doing a stopwatch piece in Finale w/o bars/time signatures.

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Stopwatch Pieces

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:31 pm

MowingDevil wrote:… What I'm really after, is the best way to add these dashes across an entire score, and advice for doing a stopwatch piece in Finale w/o bars/time signatures.
1) Finale har a barline style called Tick (= a small dash across the highest staff-line).
Would a Tick barline work for you?

Or must the dash be positioned above the staff, as in your attached example?
To get the dashes above the staff you could add an extra staff above, and let the extra staff display nothing but the barlines.

2) You can not create a Finale document that has neither measures nor time signatures.
Measures and time signatures are vital parts of the Finale .musx file format.

However, you can hide barlines and time signatures so that they do not display in the layout.

MowingDevil wrote:… I suppose if I made the tempo 60, this would be fine …
That is what I would do.
MowingDevil wrote:… but some systems are going to be different lengths and I want to control the time that is displayed etc. …
I am afraid I do not understand why you use the word ‘but’ here.
Are you saying that tempo 60 would not be fine after all?
What is the problem with tempo 60?

When you are talking about systems of “different lengths”, then are you talking about layout, or about playback?
Also, what are you thinking of when you say “etc.”?
MowingDevil wrote:… There's graphic notation involved, and I don't want to be tied the time at each bar because the barlines will be hidden …
I am afraid I do not understand.
What is the problem?
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MowingDevil
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Re: Stopwatch Pieces

Post by MowingDevil » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:24 am

Peter Thomsen wrote:
MowingDevil wrote:… What I'm really after, is the best way to add these dashes across an entire score, and advice for doing a stopwatch piece in Finale w/o bars/time signatures.
1) Finale har a barline style called Tick (= a small dash across the highest staff-line).
Would a Tick barline work for you?

Or must the dash be positioned above the staff, as in your attached example?
To get the dashes above the staff you could add an extra staff above, and let the extra staff display nothing but the barlines.

2) You can not create a Finale document that has neither measures nor time signatures.
Measures and time signatures are vital parts of the Finale .musx file format.

However, you can hide barlines and time signatures so that they do not display in the layout.
How do you access the tick feature? I've never seen this. Can tick be flipped below the staff?

I'm aware Finale is locked into time signatures and measures, what I was referring to is what we see. Meaning, if they're hidden then they're not part of the end result.
Peter Thomsen wrote:
MowingDevil wrote:… I suppose if I made the tempo 60, this would be fine …
That is what I would do.
Actually I don't think this is going to work. I set it up so that I had enough "bars" to go across the system in 5 second increments. I also set the measure numbers to read time as you previously suggested. To make each system read 30 seconds I had to change the tempo to 48. I suppose I could change it to 60 and not have the time automatically indicated, I could just use text instead. Please see attached image, this is what it's currently looking like. I used a single line w/ short barlines to function as the notch/tick to indicate 5 second intervals.
Peter Thomsen wrote:
MowingDevil wrote:… but some systems are going to be different lengths and I want to control the time that is displayed etc. …
I am afraid I do not understand why you use the word ‘but’ here.
Are you saying that tempo 60 would not be fine after all?
What is the problem with tempo 60?

When you are talking about systems of “different lengths”, then are you talking about layout, or about playback?
Also, what are you thinking of when you say “etc.”?
See above. I was intending to have each system be 30 seconds but that might not be practical anyways when some areas are sparse and others are busier. I might make sense if some systems are shorter or longer than each other.
Peter Thomsen wrote:
MowingDevil wrote:… There's graphic notation involved, and I don't want to be tied the time at each bar because the barlines will be hidden …
I am afraid I do not understand.
What is the problem?
Some areas will have graphics that cut across the page and not stick to being on a system/line. Flexibility is what's required and this could affect the time count if it's done automatically. Much easier done on paper but I'm sure there's a way here somewhere.
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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Stopwatch Pieces

Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:01 am

MowingDevil wrote:… How do you access the tick feature? I've never seen this. Can tick be flipped below the staff? …
Measure Tool.
Double-click the measure, to get to the Measure Attributes.
At the top of the Measure Attributes you can choose various barline styles. One of them is Tick.

No, the Tick can not be flipped below the staff.
Instead, “flipped Tick below” can be done as an expression (but that is a lot of work if there are many Ticks).

You can also do “flipped Tick below” as an extra staff that displays only the dashes (see my previous post where we discussed dashes above the staff).

MowingDevil wrote:… I set it up so that I had enough "bars" to go across the system in 5 second increments. I also set the measure numbers to read time as you previously suggested. To make each system read 30 seconds I had to change the tempo to 48. I suppose I could change it to 60 and not have the time automatically indicated, I could just use text instead …
From your description it sounds like the time signature is 4/4.
To get 5 second increments at tempo 60 I would set the time signature to 5/4. (This is done with the Time Signature Tool).

MowingDevil wrote:… I was intending to have each system be 30 seconds but that might not be practical anyways when some areas are sparse and others are busier. I might make sense if some systems are shorter or longer than each other …
1) Finale lets you “lock” a system with the number of measures you need.
Example:
In a “very busy” region you might prefer to have only one measure per system.

2) When you say “if some systems are shorter or longer”, I am not sure whether you mean layout or playback.
With the Page Layout Tool you can adjust the (layout) length of individual systems.

MowingDevil wrote:… Some areas will have graphics that cut across the page and not stick to being on a system/line. Flexibility is what's required, and this could affect the time count if it's done automatically. Much easier done on paper but I'm sure there's a way here somewhere.
Without knowing your actual layout my first guess would be:

Finish the score without the “cut across the page” graphics, and use the Graphics Tool to export the score to a PDF file.
Then, open the PDF file in a vector based graphics program (a. k. a. a drawing program), like e. g. Illustrator, and create the “cut across the page” graphics there.
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MowingDevil
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Re: Stopwatch Pieces

Post by MowingDevil » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:12 am

Thank you for all your detailed suggestions Peter! Lots of options to try.

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Stopwatch Pieces

Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:28 am

MowingDevil,

The bad news:
I suspect that you will come across some issues when you have “digged deeper” into doing stopwatch pieces with Finale.

The good news:
It is very difficult to find something that Finale can not do.
Come back to the forum when you have encountered problems, and I am confident that we can suggest some solutions.
Mac OS X 10.13.6 (High Sierra), Finale user since 1996

MowingDevil
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Re: Stopwatch Pieces

Post by MowingDevil » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:15 pm

Cheers, will do.

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