Finale Tempo Marks - adjustments in Score but no change in Parts?

[BugleMe]

Hello,
I am running Finale 2014.5 on a Mac using OS High Sierra 10.13.6
Maybe I’m missing some box to check in Document Options or in Preferences, but after I’ve already made parts, if I change a Tempo Marks position, or look, or anything in the Score, I have to manually go into the part and delete the offending tempo mark and re-select it from the palette and then it is corrected to what the score is. (Sorry for this incredibly long sentence!). Does anyone have any ideas for a fix to this??? I used to think that if you made a change in the score then it was automatically updated in the parts, what am I missing here?

Thanks,
Scott

[Peter Thomsen]

… Maybe I’m missing some box to check in Document Options or in Preferences, but after I’ve already made parts, if I change a Tempo Marks position, or look, or anything in the Score, I have to manually go into the part and delete the offending tempo mark and re-select it from the palette and then it is corrected to what the score is …

BugleMe,

You mention three cases with Tempo Mark expressions:

1) position

2) look

3) or anything

Regarding 1) - position:
If you context-click on the epression’s handle, you will get a context menu.
Among the menu items is the option of “Relink”.

Regarding 2) - look:
I am not sure what you are talking about here? - perhaps the horizontal distance between the characters? - or?
Generally expressions will always have the same “look” in score and parts.
Please explain.

Regarding 3) - or anything:
Please explain.

[BugleMe]

Perhaps my statement "if I change a Tempo Marks position, or look, or anything in the Score" was a bit broad. Let me elaborate a bit further. What I'm experiencing is, if I try to conserve space in the parts with rather long tempo marks, I have been dividing them up by sending part of the tempo mark down to the next line. I then have been highlighting that lower line and bringing it up towards the 1st line by adjusting the "Baseline Shift". Now the tempo mark is nice and compact not taking up too much room on the page/part. I make this adjustment in the score, but yet when I go the parts, I don't see the modified "Tempo Mark", I see the old tempo mark and it is still Green in color, indicating that there has been no change between it and the score. However, when I double click on it (the expression in the part), the expressions dialogue box appears and then I double click on the Tempo Mark I've modified, it is then that the part accepts the modified Tempo mark. To reiterate, there are no changes of color between the Score and Part if I've changed the tempo mark in the score. The parts seem to want to remember the original Tempo Mark and not want the modified one that I've altered. I hope this is making sense to you.

Regarding "position", I just did an experiment and it does appear that when I change the location of the expression in the score, that it does change it in the part. I will keep my eye on this to make sure this never varies.

Regarding "anything", I think I was just throwing a broad net in my statement. I will keep my eye on this to make sure this never varies also.

Thanks for your help!!!

[N Grossingink]

Finale has troubles related to screen drawing. When you find that a change on the score is not reflected on a part, redraw the screen by hitting Command/D. Any difference?

[BugleMe]

Thanks for your suggestion, however it has no effect upon my problem. The Score says one thing and the parts say another.
Arrrggggghhh!

[motet]

Can you post an example here?

[BugleMe]

OK, here are two screen shots.

1) Score in Scroll View

Score.png

2) Part

Part.png

When I make the change in the Score, the parts are not updated with the change, so I have to remember what I've changed and manually change each tempo marking. PITA really.
Thanks for your help!

[motet]

To get to the bottom of this, you need to attach a Finale file, not a screen shot. Attach a file in which, if you edit the score, it doesn't propagate to the part.

I am a bit confused by your screen shot. It looks line q=100 is a separate expression. Moderato con anima looks the same in both score and part to me.

[BugleMe]

I was able to highlight just a portion of the bottom line and used "Baseline Shift"
to raise just the Quarter = 100 part of the expression to get it out of the way of the other cue.
So in other words, I was able to use two different degrees of "Baseline Shift" on the lower line.
As you can see from my 2 examples, the Score had the updated expression and the part didn't.
"Moderato con anima" along with "Quarter = 100" is one expression, not two.

[motet]

I see. It works for me just shifting just q=100, and shifting con anima by one amount and q=100 by another. Unless you attach a file, I don't think we'll be able to help you. Alternatively, you could make q=100 a separate expression.

[BugleMe]

Yea, I stumbled upon this trick and will use it frequently in the future making parts.
However, this does not solve my problem which is...
If I change an expression in the score a good while after making parts and decide to change things, I change them in the score, that is where I'm supposed to make changes, but the parts don't change, like I've stated earlier.
Is this a Finale glitch?

[motet]

As I said, it works correctly for me.

ATTACH A FILE. You can delete everything except a few bars exhibiting the problem if you like.

[BugleMe]

OK, I'm attaching the file.
I've deleted most everything, but the problem still remains.
You change the tempo marking in the score but it doesn't change in the part.
Please let me know what you think the problem is.

Thank you!

Finale problem.musx

[motet]

They appear to be two different expressions, rather than one linked between score and part.

[BugleMe]

I left the same expression in 3 different iterations for you to play with. Try setting in the score one of them and see if the expression changes in the part as it should to the one in the score.

[motet]

Changes in the score, including two baseline shifts on one line, are reflected in the part for me. Since in measure 1 you have two separate expressions that are not linked, are you sure that's not the problem? The other thing I notice is that the second and third of your expressions have no font defined, which is odd unless maybe you are using something non-standard that I don't have. You might try rechecking "Use Tempo Category Fonts."

[BugleMe]

The font un-recognition is due to the fact that I raised the lower line via the "Baseline Shift". As soon as you do that "Use Tempo Category Fonts" becomes disabled. What I was getting at was that if you select a different iteration of the same tempo mark, I have included 3, it doesn't change in the part. The part remains what it was prior to the change in the score. So my only work around is to manually change the parts once I have changed the score. Seems like a BUG to me, unless you have some suggestions for a fix.
Thanks for you help!
BugleMe

[motet]

One more thing we can try is for you assign one of those expressions in your test file to both score and parts, then post it for me to try. In the version above, part and score had different expressions, as I said. There may be a problem in how you're assigning expressions. I think it's unlikely there's a bug.

[BugleMe]

Well that's what I did, I assigned the third expression to the score and the part remained with one of the other two expressions.
Perhaps later on today, I'll create a new document and see If I can get the same behavior.

[motet]

Delete all expression assignments in both score and parts, then assign one again, save the file, see if it has the problem for you; if so, then post the saved file and I'll take a look.

[Anders Hedelin]

I discovered that you had checked three options for parts in the score list (1) for Tempo Marks: Top Staff, Check All Staves and Trumpet 1. When I unchecked the last two, the linking of the tempo mark behaved normally.

To have different versions of a tempo mark show in the score and in a part, you may try this: In the part, hide (uncheck Show in the contextual - right-click - menu) the linked tempo mark from tempo marks category; create the new version of it as a Miscellaneous expression (without a score list!), and assign it. It should then exist in that part only.

I think that the placement of the tempo marks would look better if you used their category positioning. (Double-click a tempo mark > select all tempo marks > open Reset to category > choose Positioning (or Fonts & Positioning if you like). To have them properly placed you might have to right-click them and select Remove Manual Adjustments after that.

[BugleMe]

Dear Mr. Hedelin,
This is HUGE, this pretty much solves all the problems I've been having for years, I'm glad I reached out to the community!!!
Here's what I did to fix the problem. The first example is what I had checked in the Score List for Tempo Marks. It seemed a No-Brainer to have it checked the way I did for it to behave correctly - but it didn't.

Incorrect Behavior.png

Now taking your suggestion, I tried unchecking everything but the top two boxes and BOOOMMM, it behaves correctly!
This is counter to the way I would think this dialogue box should be checked, but I tried it repeatedly and it WORKS!

Correct Behavior.png

Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to make a suggestion!!!

Scott

[Anders Hedelin]

You are welcome, Scott.