Update Layout On Strike!

[efserra]

Hi,

I just updated my version of Finale to v26 thinking it would solve a layout problem but it didn't. My piano and orchestra piece will not combine

hiding empty measures
with
updating layout

in such a way as to make vertically shorter systems stack together onto one page (in this case, legal size portrait orientation - there's definitely room).

I have taken a handful of approaches to this both on my own and guided by the help manual to no avail. The only thing I can think is that there is a default margin problem I have missed somewhere and it is attaching to the systems, but when I try to set the global margins to reasonable sizes it doesn't cause the desired global change.

Is there any person from Finale willing to look at my file and help me figure out what's preventing Finale from helping me save paper? It looks silly to have single solo piano passages atop 4 pages and miles of empty space below each knowing they could have been stacked onto the one page. I would provide some pictures to illustrate the problem but the forum admin says my png screenshot (dimensions 1633 x 768; 631kb) is too large an attachment to upload.

The odd thing is it seems to be selective of which systems it will permit me to stack. First few pages of the score it will do this no problem. At one point I had to insert some measures to lengthen a musical passage and from that point the global update layout has never behaved. Maybe that provides a clue? Perhaps inserting measures changed the global margin settings or something like that. Should I upload the file?

[Peter Thomsen]

… Should I upload the file? …

We do not need the “full”, big Finale document.

Since we are only looking at systems, you can clear all items in the measures, leaving just the empty measures.

Also, you can delete all items in the Selection dialogs, such as Articulation Selection, Expression Selection, Shape Selection, Chord Suffix Selection, …

All these steps will reduce the file size considerably.

Then, attach the reduced, small Finale document here.

[motet]

If the newer systems have top and bottom margins that are too big, that comes from Document/Page Format, which is referenced whenever creating new systems, regardless of what you may have done with existing ones manually with the Page Layout tool. You can fix them in the Page Layout tool as shown below (be sure to uncheck Left and Right).

You shouldn't ever need to use Update Layout, unless you've turned off Automatic Update Layout, which is generally not a good idea.

[efserra]

… Should I upload the file? …

We do not need the “full”, big Finale document.

Since we are only looking at systems, you can clear all items in the measures, leaving just the empty measures.

Also, you can delete all items in the Selection dialogs, such as Articulation Selection, Expression Selection, Shape Selection, Chord Suffix Selection, …

All these steps will reduce the file size considerably.

Then, attach the reduced, small Finale document here.

Okay here you are.

I'm not sure if you'll be able to perform the same "hide empty staves" to see the problem I"m having in getting the shorter vertical staves to stack on one page.

[motet]

Look where your bottom page margin is. The margin is just that--the distance from the bottom of the page, not the top.

[efserra]

Yes I suspected something like that might come up. It's come up before and I thought I'd fixed it. It kept presenting some ridiculous number like that before I tried to fix it globally.

Like with the other times I did again just now fix the wonky margin settings and it seems to be doing what I want it to do. Hopefully it holds this time. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention.

[motet]

The way Finale works is that when new pages are created, it uses the margins from Document/Page Format. So if you fix them with the Page Layout tool but then create more pages, it will use the Document/Page Format setting for the new pages, which is likely what's happening. So be sure to fix it in both places.

[Peter Thomsen]

Also, this might be a good idea:
Page Layout Tool.
Page Layout menu > Update Page Format for Score (de-select this option)

When you finetune the layout on one particular page, and you do not want this finetuning on any other page, then you prefer that Page Format for Score remains un-changed.

NB:
{Update Page Format for Score} is a program setting (not a document setting).
All documents you are working on, will be affected when {Update Page Format for Score} is selected.