Show clef in transposing instruments

[Elmorado92]

Hi, i've noticed that when i try to show clefs in the middle of a score the effect is shown only in the non transposed instruments and the the transposed ones that use treble clefs like the baritone sax or the bass clarinet doesn't show anything. obviously this is solved when i turn the score to concert pitch (wish i don't intend to use).
is there a way to solve this issue? i've tried to solveded turning of the "Display clef only on first staff system" but doesn't seems to work,

Finale v25
Windows 10

[zuill]

That's because the transposition uses "Set to Clef". I believe the way to force a change of clef on that staff is to create a Staff Style with the correct transposition, and a "Set to Clef" for the clef you want to use for that section.

Zuill

[motet]

I confess I've never really understood the usefulness of Set to Clef--is it helpful for switching to and from Display in Concert pitch? I guess I would just not use it, since it has this and other odd undocumented side effects, but rather do this in the Score Manager (especially since you're not using Display in Concert Pitch):

[motet]

The manual says

Set to Clef. To change the clef for a transposed staff (such as a treble clef baritone part), select this check box, then click the clef that you want displayed for the staff in its transposed form. If you don’t want Finale to use a different clef than the clef specified in the Staff Attributes dialog box, deselect Set to Clef.

but I don't see any clef specified in the Staff Attributes dialog box.

[zuill]

That instruction seems to be from the days when Staff Attributes had that option (look at 2011). Now, you still have the option of affecting the transposition and clef (using Set to Clef) in a Staff Style. Also, in the Score Manager, if you turn off Set to Clef, you can still choose the First Clef. If you start with Treble, and then want to change to Bass with the Clef Tool, that will now be honored.

Zuill

[motet]

Right--I showed "first clef" as treble above. Set to Clef must have to do with Display in Concert Pitch. With that selected the Bari sax clef changes from treble to bass when you display in concert pitch, though how it knows to do that remains mysterious to me.

[Elmorado92]

That instruction seems to be from the days when Staff Attributes had that option (look at 2011). Now, you still have the option of affecting the transposition and clef (using Set to Clef) in a Staff Style. Also, in the Score Manager, if you turn off Set to Clef, you can still choose the First Clef. If you start with Treble, and then want to change to Bass with the Clef Tool, that will now be honored.

Zuill

Finally !! changing the clef setting from Score Manager and then turning off Set to Clef solved the issue. I still don't understand the internal function or the logic of the result but it works.
thank you very much for your replies.

[zuill]

Right--I showed "first clef" as treble above. Set to Clef must have to do with Display in Concert Pitch. With that selected the Bari sax clef changes from treble to bass when you display in concert pitch, though how it knows to do that remains mysterious to me.

If you have Set to Clef and choose Treble there, but choose Bass in First Clef, the Treble Shows in Transposed View, but the Bass Shows in Concert View. The program is guided by those 2 Clef settings. If you choose Treble for the First Clef, the program will not change to Bass Clef in Concert View.

Zuill

[motet]

Set to clef is unchecked in my picture.

What I don't understand is how it knows to switch to bass clef in concert pitch view.

[zuill]

When I follow your setting, per your picture, because the First Clef is Treble, when switching to concert pitch view, it remains in Treble. If yours changes to Bass, then you must have some other setting that you're not sharing.

Zuill

P.S.: Here's a file to show what I mean, comparing settings between 2 setups.

[motet]

Sorry for the confusion. The picture above is for the O.P. I'm talking now about the default "set to clef" feature, Baritone Sax. When you switch to concert pitch, it switches to bass clef. How does it know to do that? By the amount of transposition?

[zuill]

That's what I showed in my demo. Did you look at that? It shows what I explained earlier. The default has set to clef choosing Treble in that part of the setup, but the First Clef is a Bass Clef. That is what determines which clef is used in Concert Pitch View.

Zuill

[motet]

I think I get it now. Thanks for your patience.