Where is export to EPS in Finale 27.1?

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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:52 am

sPretzel wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:50 pm
By any chance, when it's there, is Export to EPS accessible anywhere else than from the Graphics tool menu?
Is it accessible via scripting?
You need to report the PDF bug to MM. You can throw in your annoyance at the removal of EPS support, but they're unlikely to row back on that. (And the documentation at least needs to concord with the software.)

But getting the PDF page size fixed would at least let you use PDFs in the place of EPS files.


sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:22 pm

BuonTempi, can you go a few posts back and try exporting to PDF with the page size I wrote in the post? Does the resulting PDF have the correct page size on Mac?

BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:49 pm

I did try an arbitrary custom size (not matching any known paper size), and the PDF was made correctly.

sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:58 pm

BuonTempi, I forgot to ask. Do you also see the correct fonts in the resulting PDF made with Export to PDF on Mac?
Same question to Windows users on Finale 27. Do you see the correct fonts in the PDF made with Export to PDF? You can use the Finale Default Document for this.

sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:41 pm

Makemusic must be reading this forum. The manual has changed today! But that's too little too late. It would be much better to take into account user feedback and restore Export to EPS, even if it is broken. After all, Export to PDF is broken too!

This is the quote in the original post, as seen in the online manual on Wed Nov 24, 2021:
Type: EPS • JPEG • PDF • PNG • SVG • TIFF. Select the type of graphics file you want Finale to create. If you choose EPS the PostScript Options will be available. If you choose TIFF, the TIFF Resolution settings will be available. Make changes to these settings as needed.
This is the quote in the same spot of the manual today on Fri Nov 26, 2021:
Type: JPEG • PDF • PNG • SVG • TIFF. Select the type of graphics file you want Finale to create If you choose TIFF, the TIFF Resolution settings will be available. Make changes to these settings as needed.

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miker
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Post by miker » Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:36 pm

Ask for your money back. Or ask if they will downgrade you to F26. I don't see where you have any other options.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:36 am

sPretzel wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:58 pm
BuonTempi, I forgot to ask. Do you also see the correct fonts in the resulting PDF made with Export to PDF on Mac?
It seems to be correct. I seem to recall that there were some font/character issues with PDF export from the Graphics Tool in the past; though if it's (now) using the MacOS PDF-creation routines, then they are pretty solid.

sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:12 pm

Hi BuonTempi,
Can you check in F27 and Mac with the Finale Default Document? That document has FinaleMaestro, TimeNewRoman, and TimesNewRoman Italic fonts in it.
Open a new Default Document in Finale and Export to PDF in Graphics tool. Then check the font names in the PDF document. When I Export to PDF in F27.1, those fonts are gone and replaced by odd font names CIDFont+F1, CIDFont+F2, CIDFont+F3! This is in Windows and the PDF Producer is Microsoft Print to PDF (which is automatically selected by Finale, I guess).

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wessmusic
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Post by wessmusic » Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:03 pm

I was also curious if this pointed out issue is platform depending.
Apparently Mac Finale version generates full font names.
I tested both method: from Graphic too and from Print option (File—Print—Save as PDF)
Attachments
Test PDF.png
Test PDF.png (24.64 KiB) Viewed 5321 times
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sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:25 pm

Thanks wessmusic. Was that on Mac with F26.3 or 27? What you show looks correct, no issue there.
Can anybody reproduce in Windows the issue as I describe it for BuonTempi?

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wessmusic
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Post by wessmusic » Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:10 pm

sPretzel wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:25 pm
Thanks wessmusic. Was that on Mac with F26.3 or 27?
Finale 27.1 (DEMO version for Mac)
CUSTOM FONTS for FINALE and SIBELIUS
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________
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sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:41 pm

A few questions are still open from previous posts. Any volunteers on Windows and F27 or F27.1 to report back on the following tasks:

Open new Finale Default Document, set page width=8.11in and height=10.4in (do not change any other setting), Export to PDF (from Graphics tool without changing any other setting).
-What is the page size of the PDF?
-What are the fonts in the PDF file?
-What is the producer of the PDF?
-Finale version F27 or F27.1?

In my case:
-width=8.5in, height=11in. This should be width=8.11in and height=10.4in.
-CIDFont+F1, CIDFont+F2, CIDFont+F3. This should be FinaleMaestro, TimesNewRoman, TimesNewRoman Italic.
-Microsoft Print to PDF.
-F27.1.

Thanks.

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:42 pm

I found the thread where I reported problems using the PDF export from the Graphics tool. It seems to be a problem on Windows only. Use it at your peril. (Be sure to read both pages of the thread.)

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18916

sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:00 pm

Hi motet. Thanks, I just read it. Okay, but let's stay on point with my last post and the simple task described there for Windows and F27/F27.1 only.
Last edited by sPretzel on Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:11 pm

Given that the Graphics Tool PDF has problems on Windows, I think it is on point. CutePDF is free.

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wessmusic
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Post by wessmusic » Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:14 am

Today I did a few attempts, with which I think I understood why the EPS export option was removed.

Here are the steps I went through:
I created a short excerpt with Finale 27.1 in two versions - with FinaleMaestro and with Bravura font. Then I opened the same files with version 25.5 and 26.3. Except for the lack of the Time Signature sign, everything else looked fine.
(I should add that I had previously created Font Annotation Tables for both fonts.)

In both cases, the EPS-export went according to my expectations – the program did not crash. But to my surprise (although I suspected it would happen in the end), when I tried to open the generated EPS files (with Adobe Illustrator & Affinity Designer), all I could see were staves, stems and beams. Nothing more than that... (I am still talking about Finale 25.1 and 26.3 EPS export).

My next endeavor was to test SVG exports of Finale 27.1 — it went exactly according to my plan and there were no problems with the correct opening of the files — both in Adobe Illustrator and Affinity Designer. The only difference was that Affinity treated all symbols as outlines. This is a relatively inexpensive graphics program (around €60 inc. VAT) that works nimbly and does everything you need, sometimes more than expected. (My main concern was that when exporting the Bravura font file, errors could occur, as with a number of other files in which a third-party OTF font is assigned instead of Maestro.)
__________

Finally — a test in the opposite direction — importing an EPS file into Finale 27.1.
It's really interesting here, although many will argue that version 27.1 lacks ESP imports.

On the contrary, there is and I will explain in details.
This is how:

I entered random notes, accidentals, tenuto, dynamics etc. within 3 bars, enclosed the first staff with Graphics Tool and exported it as SVG. Then I opened it in Adobe Illustrator and saved it as ESP (the music text was already converted into outlines).
Here is important moment — I changed the extension of the file from EPS to PDF and imported it into the same Finale demo.
In the meantime, I tried to open the fake PDF with Acrobat, but here's what it said:
Image

Needless to say, the image has a low raster screen resolution.
(I prefer to save myself the criticism and pass with indifference the 30-year negligence of the Finale developers on this issue.) I admit, I expected the program to "scream" that it doesn't support this file format or something is wrong, but nothing like that happened.

What's more — please pay attention to the screenshot — in red I have enclosed the form of the graphic file — EPS, indeed!
Image

Finale correctly recognizes that this is EPS, not PDF. From now on, I decided to "print" the file in virtual PS format and next to convert it to PDF with Acrobat Distiller. All this is known and the result is there — pure vector graphics, as expected.

Then I decided to experiment even further and I converted this same EPS file into a real PDF (again in Illustrator) and included it in the Finale 27.1 demo file — I put it this time under the staff.
Image

I repeated the procedure of virtual printing in PS and conversion to PDF.
The result needs no comment - PDF graphics is rasterized, while EPS (as a fake PDF import) is usable.

Here is the PDF:
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code ... Ix8fQmB8nk
_____

I suppose that colleagues who use Windows can adapt the above experience using a technique not very different from the one described, but still in accordance with the peculiarities of the WIN platform.

best,
Wess
CUSTOM FONTS for FINALE and SIBELIUS
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________
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sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:20 am

I do appreciate that folks experiment to figure out the extent of the issue on various platforms and versions of Finale. Thanks.
If there are any takers, please let us know the results of the experiment I described in an earlier post. It is to be performed on Windows with F27 or F27.1.
A few questions are still open from previous posts. Any volunteers on Windows and F27 or F27.1 to report back on the following tasks:

Open new Finale Default Document, set page width=8.11in and height=10.4in (do not change any other setting), Export to PDF (from Graphics tool without changing any other setting).
-What is the page size of the PDF?
-What are the fonts in the PDF file?
-What is the producer of the PDF?
-Finale version F27 or F27.1?

In my case:
-width=8.5in, height=11in. This should be width=8.11in and height=10.4in.
-CIDFont+F1, CIDFont+F2, CIDFont+F3. This should be FinaleMaestro, TimesNewRoman, TimesNewRoman Italic.
-Microsoft Print to PDF.
-F27.1.

Thanks.

BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:32 am

I've been reporting problems with EPS/PDF export and import since 2012, at least. My last correspondence was in August 2020, when David Cusick confirmed all the issues that Wess describes. I don't know whether that led to the removal of the features.

sPretzel, you could try SVG as an alternative to EPS?

sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:31 am

BuonTempi, if so, shall we be grateful? :evil: :wink:
Please ask for EPS to be back (broken or not). It's better to have that option than not. Instead of removing the option, Makemusic could encourage people to use PDF over EPS in the user manual.

SVG does not preserve fonts, nor is it meant for print.

Anybody giving us their results on my Windows/F27 experiment?

BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:02 am

sPretzel wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:31 am
BuonTempi, if so, shall we be grateful? :evil: :wink:
No. We should be appalled. Having to choose between one broken feature that's no longer implemented and another broken feature that still exists is an absurd predicament, after a decade of user feedback.

sPretzel wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:31 am
Please ask for EPS to be back.
Even if they agreed, how soon do you think it will return, given that I've been asking for bug fixes for over 10 years?

Ultimately, if you can't rely on Finale to export vector graphics correctly, then you need to use another notation app.

sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:29 am

If Makemusic was consistent about what they include and what they exclude from a release, both Export to EPS and Export to PDF should be excluded! For a music engraving software package, it is unthinkable not to fully support formats geared towards print.

Well, Makemusic could put Export to EPS, just the way it was in F26.3, in a minor update to F27.1. They could include a warning in the user manual about EPS being partially supported and encourage users to make use of Export to PDF instead (which is, I'm afraid, also partially supported). I suppose it could be available as soon as today!

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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:08 pm

PDF export (and, I guess EPS) has always had problems in Finale. Since there are plenty of free alternatives, why not just get of those and forget about it?

Dejan
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Post by Dejan » Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:49 pm

Can I ask everyone with this issue to write to MM about fixing PDF graphics rasterizing on export since they killed the EPS support in Finale 27? I am pleading with them to leave us at least one option for vector graphics working properly. I don't know about everyone else, but this is so important in our workflow to have vectors maintained for the imported graphics in Finale files instead of using Illustrator or something similar.

Cheers,
DB

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