How to create notation for niente attack and bow pressure

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teweihuang
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Post by teweihuang » Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:22 pm

In contemporary music, niente attack and increasing bow pressure are commonly used extended techniques. I try to create those notation by using smart shape, but just can't figure out how to create the shapes similar to the images below.

Image

Image

It seems that the notation of bow pressure only can be created by other software like illustrator. How about niente attack? I tried to attach a small circle to the dynamic hairpin but the smart line selection only content horizontal lines. Any suggestions?

Image


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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:16 pm

You can do these in Finale, with a bit of experimentation.

For the niente decrescendo, you could use the regular hairpin and add the circle as a text expression. The pictured example uses the "degree" symbol, Helvetica Bold font.

For the overpressure, the pictured example is a shape expression made with the polygon drawing tool and filled with black. Once you enter it, double click the handle to reveal adjustment handles so you can adjust its width. Enter the shape using a metatool shortcut so that each will be independently adjustable. You might have to make a few or several of differing outlines.

I'm attaching the Finale file so you can take a look. Both are in the "Miscellaneous" expression category.
Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 7.57.22 AM.png
Attachments
Specials.musx
(100.11 KiB) Downloaded 104 times
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
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teweihuang
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:12 pm
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Post by teweihuang » Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:24 pm

N Grossingink wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:16 pm
You can do these in Finale, with a bit of experimentation.

For the niente decrescendo, you could use the regular hairpin and add the circle as a text expression. The pictured example uses the "degree" symbol, Helvetica Bold font.

For the overpressure, the pictured example is a shape expression made with the polygon drawing tool and filled with black. Once you enter it, double click the handle to reveal adjustment handles so you can adjust its width. Enter the shape using a metatool shortcut so that each will be independently adjustable. You might have to make a few or several of differing outlines.

I'm attaching the Finale file so you can take a look. Both are in the "Miscellaneous" expression category.

Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 7.57.22 AM.png
Thank you for your answer! I downloaded the attachment and like your score very much. However, I notice that the hairpin and small circle of neinte decresendo are detached. I wonder is it possible to create neinte attack through customer line tool? Otherwise I will need to insert both marking separately and then combine them manually. It is easy to create new lines with various head shapes in customer line tool, except the hairpin...

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:22 pm

I notice that the hairpin and small circle of neinte decresendo are detached. I wonder is it possible to create neinte attack through customer line tool?
The custom line tool doesn't have the hairpins included, so I guess no. If you make sure the anchor points of the hairpin and the expression circle are in the same location, they should stay in the same position after you manually place the circle.
Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 4.12.10 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 4.12.10 PM.png (69.8 KiB) Viewed 2688 times
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3

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wessmusic
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Post by wessmusic » Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:45 am

I will allow myself to share an easy method for creating dal niente and al niente with the help of only "Expression Tool".
Although Finale is very versatile program, it sometimes turns out that some of the basic features (those we find for years in Sibelius and recently in Dorico) are missing here. Whether by oversight or something else — I would not like to guess.
Instead, I could offer you a very easy and quick video method for creating both graphic elements described above.

The attached short (and silent, too) video demonstration shows essentially how this actually happens (from 59 sec. onwards).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgT_Xxn ... =WessMusic
_____________
All we have to draw first is a "fake" crescendo, consisting of two vertically symmetrical straight lines* and a circle, as part of a musical or other font.
(*In my opinion, the use of "Polygon" is not appropriate, because at very narrow crescendo the tip changes the geometry of its joining.) Needless to say, the precision is of particular importance.

On the one hand, there is a small trick here, because for dal niente we will have to find a circle (as part of a font), which has zero width (or at most as much as the width of the curved line, with which the symbol is created).

On the other hand, using a simple circle (created within Shape designer) is not appropriate, because when you stretch the shape, its initial part will become an ellipse.

Thirdly, if we use a circle as part of font element with its full width, then when stretching the shape, it will separate from the narrow side of the crescendo.

For the opposite sign al nienite, however, this is not a problem and there you can easily use the lowercase "o" from Maestro Font at the end of both extended lines building the decrescendo.

best,
Wess
CUSTOM FONTS for FINALE and SIBELIUS
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f0udkrvb8xvh2zj/AAD_8mVlRzzr5mjZKI7BR7Kza?dl=0
________
Finale user since 1994

teweihuang
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:12 pm
Finale Version: 2014
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Post by teweihuang » Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:37 am

N Grossingink wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:22 pm
I notice that the hairpin and small circle of neinte decresendo are detached. I wonder is it possible to create neinte attack through customer line tool?
The custom line tool doesn't have the hairpins included, so I guess no. If you make sure the anchor points of the hairpin and the expression circle are in the same location, they should stay in the same position after you manually place the circle.

Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 4.12.10 PM.png
Thank you so much. I always wonder why Finale doesn't include hairpin in custom tool. Maybe it is easier to create niente attack on other notation softwares.

teweihuang
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:12 pm
Finale Version: 2014
Operating System: Mac

Post by teweihuang » Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:19 am

wessmusic wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:45 am
I will allow myself to share an easy method for creating dal niente and al niente with the help of only "Expression Tool".
Although Finale is very versatile program, it sometimes turns out that some of the basic features (those we find for years in Sibelius and recently in Dorico) are missing here. Whether by oversight or something else — I would not like to guess.
Instead, I could offer you a very easy and quick video method for creating both graphic elements described above.

The attached short (and silent, too) video demonstration shows essentially how this actually happens (from 59 sec. onwards).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgT_Xxn ... =WessMusic
_____________
Hi Wess, I am so grateful for the video you made!! What a fantastic demonstration of manipulating notational tools in finale. Wonderful. It will take some time to run through all these steps, however, your video makes it easier for me to understand. I will let you know if it finally works. Thank you so much!

teweihuang
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:12 pm
Finale Version: 2014
Operating System: Mac

Post by teweihuang » Wed Dec 08, 2021 2:10 pm

wessmusic wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:45 am
On the other hand, using a simple circle (created within Shape designer) is not appropriate, because when you stretch the shape, its initial part will become an ellipse.
Thirdly, if we use a circle as part of font element with its full width, then when stretching the shape, it will separate from the narrow side of the crescendo.
For the opposite sign al nienite, however, this is not a problem and there you can easily use the lowercase "o" from Maestro Font at the end of both extended lines building the decrescendo.

best,
Wess
Thank you Wess! I follow your instructions and it works! However, I cannot find any online resources of the font you used (Schott CC note head?)so, like what you mentioned, the small circle separates when I stretch the hairpin.

Image

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wessmusic
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Post by wessmusic » Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:50 pm

You can download "Fontforge" (a free font program) and create what I described as width parameter.
CUSTOM FONTS for FINALE and SIBELIUS
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f0udkrvb8xvh2zj/AAD_8mVlRzzr5mjZKI7BR7Kza?dl=0
________
Finale user since 1994

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