8vb in Finale Maestro font

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Rebecca Oswald
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8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by Rebecca Oswald » Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:57 pm

Hi all,

Been awhile since I've posted. I'm just now migrating to F27 and the Finale Maestro font.

I am used to seeing the "vb" in "8vb" align with the upper half of the "8". But Finale Maestro font only has the "vb" aligned with the lower half of the "8". Looks weird to me.

When I go to Smart Shape > Smart Shape Options > Custom Line > Create > Edit, if I choose the default music font (Finale Maestro), the alphabet and symbols that show up when I type anything are clearly not a music font! argghhhhh

Then when I go to Smart Shape > Smart Shape Options > Symbols: Octave down (8va) and click on Select, I see the menu item Octaves (the "8" is there), and also the menu item Octaves supplement (the superscript "v" and superscript "b" that I want are both there).

Is it possible to combine these to build the symbol I want to see? How?

Cheers and thanks,

Rebecca
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

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motet
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by motet » Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:05 am

The new fonts are not entirely well thought-out, it seems.

8 or 8va below the staff also mean "octave lower," so you could use one of those. Some even argue that "8vb" is wrong, since 8va is short for "ottava" (octave) rather than the A standing for alto or something like that, so substituting a B for basso doesn't make a lot of sense (I personally think 8vb is OK, though).

In the SmartShape option where you specify the "8vb" character, can you just pick the old Maestro font for that character, which has what you want?

Barring any of those, you could just use the old Maestro for your piece. The new SMuFL fonts offer little advantage that I can see.

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John Ruggero
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by John Ruggero » Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:52 am

Even better, ditch the va as well as the vb. 8---- above the notes for octave higher and 8-----below the notes for octave lower. That's what you will see in the best editions for the last century and more.
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Rebecca Oswald
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by Rebecca Oswald » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:35 am

John, I hear ya, but I can't ditch the va and vb. I've got recurring clients who want consistency over time with their scores.

Motet, you say it's okay to use a Maestro character in an otherwise Finale Maestro document, right? Not sure why I thought that would create a problem. Until the powers-that-be offer a superscript vb option for the Smurf font's 8vb glyph, this will solve my issue.

Someday I'll figure out how to post this as a request in GitHub.

Thanks!

Rebecca
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BuonTempi
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by BuonTempi » Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:27 am

Finale Maestro does include 8ba as superscript: it's at Unicode F679. Select the "Alternates and Extras" section.

However, the reason for the weirdness is that Finale does this:
Screenshot.png
Screenshot.png (208.26 KiB) Viewed 256 times

when it should align the line and the abbreviations like this:

Screenshot 4.png

Unless I'm missing a trick, there's no way to adjust the lines' positions, nor change to dots, etc. I'd put in a call to MM, rather than github.

Previous heated discussions on the true nature of ottava lines show that despite global communication and common computer software, 'standards' in notation remain fragmented...!

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:16 am

BuonTempi wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:27 am
… Unless I'm missing a trick, there's no way to adjust the lines' positions, nor change to dots, etc. …
To get more control over the layout (fonts, font characters, line positions &c.), you can use the sub-tool Custom Line Tool (instead of the 8va/8vb Tool).

These examples were done with the Custom Line Tool:
8va-1.jpg
8va-2.jpg
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John Ruggero
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by John Ruggero » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:59 pm

Rebecca Oswald wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:35 am
John, I hear ya, but I can't ditch the va and vb. I've got recurring clients who want consistency over time with their scores.
I'd be tempted to show them all the examples on pages 28-34 of behind Behind Bars, remind them that consistency is the hobgoblin etc., that every day is a new day and we try to improve in every way, until they saw the error of their ways and begged me to use the standard notation for octave signs. :)
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motet
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by motet » Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:46 pm

A superscript is above or at the top. In the "8ba" ("ottaba"?) shown above, the ba is a subscript. I think Rebecca is asking for a superscript vb, as shown below from the old Maestro. I wonder why they didn't include it in the new font.
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N Grossingink
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by N Grossingink » Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:30 pm

My main client, whom I've been with for almost 40 years, unapologetically uses 8vb, always has. I guess it's a big world out there.
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motet
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by motet » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:13 pm

8vb is pretty well established. I'm not sure where 8ba came from.

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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by BuonTempi » Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:35 pm

motet wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:46 pm
I wonder why they didn't include it in the new font.
See my post above. They did.

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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by motet » Fri Sep 23, 2022 7:23 pm

I see no evidence of 8vb with superscript vb in your post, which is what the O.P. is asking for. But I don't have the font, so look again.
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by BuonTempi » Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:01 pm

All the various options are included in Finale Maestro.
Screenshot.png
8vb is U+F678.

8ba is U+F679

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motet
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by motet » Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:37 pm

Well, why didn't you say so? That solves the O.P.'s problem, I think.

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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by sPretzel » Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:17 am

I have seen "8va b" for ottava bassa (va as superscript and b as normal case character). And 8va stands for ottava alta. That would make 8vb more logical to me, instead of "8va b". That being said, if it was up to me, I'd just write 8+ and 8- or something like that.

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motet
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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by motet » Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:52 pm

sPretzel wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:17 am
And 8va stands for ottava alta.
I believe 8va stands for "ottava."

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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by BuonTempi » Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:38 pm

8va is the Italian equivalent of 8th in English. It's a standard Italian abbreviation for the word Ottava, which means an eighth.

8vb is like saying '8td' in English means 'an eighth down'.

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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by sPretzel » Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:54 pm

That's what I thought. Nobody says 8vb then. :wink:

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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by motet » Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:56 pm

Eighth in Italian is ottavo. Ottava means "octave." I've never seen 8tb in English.

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Re: 8vb in Finale Maestro font

Post by BuonTempi » Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:09 pm

motet wrote:
Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:56 pm
Eighth in Italian is ottavo. Ottava means "octave." I've never seen 8tb in English.
Eighth in Italian is either Ottavo or Ottava, depending on whether what you're talking about is masculine or feminine.

Of course you haven't seen 8td in English: I was making an analogy about the logical absurdity of 8vb.

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