Template Help

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GospelPiano12
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Post by GospelPiano12 » Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:35 pm

I'm a church pianist and I'm trying to create a hymnal style, 4-part arrangement of an original hymn. It has an intro, 3 verses, and a chorus. I would like my first page to be less cluttered, but not sure what template would work for it.
So I Will Sing-page-00.jpg
So I Will Sing-page-002.jpg


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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:25 am

I don't know from templates but I would narrow the intra-system space between the two staves and increase the space between systems.

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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:41 am

The OP may need the large space between the staves for the lyrics. I would first put in the lyrics and then experiment with the staff size to allow more space between the systems and to see if it will fit on two facing pages If not, it will need to go on three pages.
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GospelPiano12
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Post by GospelPiano12 » Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:15 pm

motet wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:25 am
I don't know from templates but I would narrow the intra-system space between the two staves and increase the space between systems.
Hmmmm, I've already experimented with that. I'm not sure what else I can do to make it smaller.

Would anyone be able to make a custom template for this song after seeing it all together?
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Screenshot 2023-01-29 10.14.19 AM.png
So I Will Sing (F)-page-002 (1) (1) (1) (1) (1).jpg

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:44 pm

GospelPiano12 wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:15 pm
… Would anyone be able to make a custom template for this song after seeing it all together?
According to your Forum Profile (shown in the right side of your posts) you are (still) using Finale 2006.

The Finale .mus file format is only downwards compatible, not upwards compatible.

This means that your Finale 2006 can only open Finale documents in the Finale 2006 .mus file format (or in older formats).

Finale 2006 can not open a custom template in the Finale 2007 file format (nor in newer formats).

In Other Words:
Only a forum user with Finale 2006 (or older) can create a custom template for your Finale 2006.
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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:16 pm

I fail to see how a template can help. You can certainly narrow the space between the staves on the last three systems of the Chorus, especially since your hairpins are much too wide. So that would allow more space between the systems and the second page would work as it stands. But the first page is never going to work on two facing pages unless you reduce the staff size or somehow get system 5 onto the second page.

The slurs on the first system should start at the beam rather than note head end so they don't run through the stems.
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GospelPiano12
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Post by GospelPiano12 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:52 am

Peter Thomsen wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:44 pm
GospelPiano12 wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 3:15 pm
… Would anyone be able to make a custom template for this song after seeing it all together?
According to your Forum Profile (shown in the right side of your posts) you are (still) using Finale 2006.

The Finale .mus file format is only downwards compatible, not upwards compatible.

This means that your Finale 2006 can only open Finale documents in the Finale 2006 .mus file format (or in older formats).

Finale 2006 can not open a custom template in the Finale 2007 file format (nor in newer formats).

In Other Words:
Only a forum user with Finale 2006 (or older) can create a custom template for your Finale 2006.
Hmmm I've never heard of that. I have FTM files from later versions that I can open up in my Finale just fine

GospelPiano12
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Post by GospelPiano12 » Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:53 am

John Ruggero wrote:
Sun Jan 29, 2023 4:16 pm
I fail to see how a template can help. You can certainly narrow the space between the staves on the last three systems of the Chorus, especially since your hairpins are much too wide. So that would allow more space between the systems and the second page would work as it stands. But the first page is never going to work on two facing pages unless you reduce the staff size or somehow get system 5 onto the second page.

The slurs on the first system should start at the beam rather than note head end so they don't run through the stems.
So what I have could work if I have 4 systems on the first page and the 5 systems on the second page?

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:34 pm

I think you're going to have to reduce the size of the music to free up some vertical space. Select the Resize Tool - "%" - and click on the corner of the first page. That will give you the page sizing as a percent. Try changing it to 5% less and see if that works. If not, try a few percent less (or more).
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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:47 pm

GospelPiano12 wrote:
Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:53 am
So what I have could work if I have 4 systems on the first page and the 5 systems on the second page?
Very iffy and certainly not if you keep what you've got.

What you need to do is reduce the size of the music, either by reducing the whole image on the page as N. suggested or by reducing the staff size. You can do either by using the resize tool. Be sure to keep your present margins in either case, or decrease them a little. They look a little big to me given the situation.
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GospelPiano12
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Post by GospelPiano12 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:00 am

I got it to work - thank you for your help everyone.
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Screenshot 2023-01-30 11.59.17 PM.png
Screenshot 2023-01-30 11.58.57 PM.png

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miker
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Post by miker » Tue Jan 31, 2023 3:54 pm

If you and the people who sing or play from it are OK with it, fine.
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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:49 pm

GospelPiano12,
I don't think a template is any help on a work already completed. You would have to copy and paste what you have into it, I guess. In that case adjustment to what you have is the answer. I am not a big fan of Finale templates and prefer to make a default musx or in your case a mus file. Finale templates just don't retain enough data that is needed in my estimation. A purpose made and saved musx or mus file can be exactly how you want it. Simply use it as a template and rename it.
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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:37 pm

I suggest taking a look at some well-engraved unaccompanied choral music to see what is standard in terms of spacing and margins. Having so little room between the systems (first page, the second page is better) is not good for reading.

Now that it is clear that this is a multipage arrangement, fewer systems per page and more pages would better. Also, run Plug-ins>Patterson Lite>Beams which will shorten the stems and give you more room. And get rid of extra space between the staves within the systems. For example the last system on the first page and the second system on the second page of your final example
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GospelPiano12
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Post by GospelPiano12 » Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:08 pm

Is this better?
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Finale 2005 - [Lord Please Use My Life]-page-001.jpg

GospelPiano12
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Post by GospelPiano12 » Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:09 pm

I know this isn't the thread for this, but any arrangement suggestions would be helpful as well, like a walkup between the Eb7 to Ab in the middle of the chorus

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miker
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Post by miker » Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:20 pm

GospelPiano12 wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:08 pm
Is this better?
Not to me. Too much space between staves, not enough between systems. Also, the stepped slurs in the tenor line in m. 6 is not standard practice. There is no magic template to do what you are asking for. All that a template will do is give you a starting point of the basic staff, document settings, and what instruments are included. Spacing of staves, systems, lyrics and chords have to be fine tuned with each piece, and that comes with experience.
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engelbach
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Post by engelbach » Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pm

Will this help the passage you mentioned?
Lord, Please Use My Life.jpeg
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GospelPiano12
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Post by GospelPiano12 » Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:27 am

engelbach wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pm
Will this help the passage you mentioned?

Lord, Please Use My Life.jpeg
Yes and no, I'd like to keep the melody the same, just something maybe in the tenor or alto under the Eb7 and maybe something more interesting in the alto under the Bbm that would compliment the ascending tenor line.
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Screenshot 2023-02-26 1.26.18 AM.png
Screenshot 2023-02-26 1.25.41 AM.png

GospelPiano12
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Post by GospelPiano12 » Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:33 am

miker wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:20 pm
GospelPiano12 wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:08 pm
Is this better?
Not to me. Too much space between staves, not enough between systems. Also, the stepped slurs in the tenor line in m. 6 is not standard practice. There is no magic template to do what you are asking for. All that a template will do is give you a starting point of the basic staff, document settings, and what instruments are included. Spacing of staves, systems, lyrics and chords have to be fine tuned with each piece, and that comes with experience.
Should I have just one slur over the whole measure then?

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miker
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Post by miker » Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:22 pm

Actually, it looks like you used ties there. There are different tools for ties and slurs. Are you aware of the difference (no offense intended.)

The SLUR should go from the tenor F to the dotted quarter G in the next measure, and the bass should slur from the Bb to the Eb.
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GospelPiano12
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Post by GospelPiano12 » Mon Feb 27, 2023 1:58 am

Yes I am aware of the differences, but I'm very new to finale, sometimes the lines look more slurred than tied (like under the Ab chord)

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engelbach
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Post by engelbach » Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:23 am

GospelPiano12 wrote:
Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:27 am
engelbach wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:42 pm
Will this help the passage you mentioned?

Lord, Please Use My Life.jpeg
Yes and no, I'd like to keep the melody the same, just something maybe in the tenor or alto under the Eb7 and maybe something more interesting in the alto under the Bbm that would compliment the ascending tenor line.
You asked for suggestions.
You're welcome.
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GospelPiano12
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Post by GospelPiano12 » Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:39 am

I still appreciated it and incorporated some of your movement throughout, I just wanted to keep the original melody for that spot

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