Finale picking different Tempo Mark for Score and Parts?!?

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DGByrne
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Post by DGByrne » Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:05 pm

Has anyone ever had this happen? The score has a Tempo Mark, an expression, but Finale seems to get confused about what expression to use where in the parts...!?! In the full score I have "Sl. Slower quarter = 124 (-10)" When I paste it into my parts template the score page (in the parts template, I use separate Full Score and a Parts score for making parts) shows the right expression, but the parts have "Sl. Slower quarter = c.108" which is an expression not even used in the score!?!?

If I change the score list on the full score doc, I can see that it's choosing the right expression for the top line, but the wrong one for the lower string lines....?!?!?

How does that even happen? So frustrating to have to try and QC all of these little details that might be getting messed up by... a bug? or something?

let me try to figure out how to attach a pic in this forum...


DGByrne
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Post by DGByrne » Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:15 pm

score expression 01.jpg
parts expression 01.jpg
full score 01.jpg

DGByrne
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Post by DGByrne » Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:16 pm

parts list 01.jpg

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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:35 pm

Looks to me like you have multiple expressions going on. Notice that in one case there's a space between the period and "Slower" and in the other case not. When you copy and paste, you must select the entire stack to have tempo marks and the like copied.

DGByrne
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Post by DGByrne » Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:37 pm

I do "select all" from my "full score", and paste into my "parts score", so everything should be selected... Though, I guess the problem is really in the full score, since it shows up there too when I change the score list. I definitely didn't enter in another expression in my full score since I just enter in the one for the top part, and the score list means the lower strings expressions are hidden. Not even sure how I'd enter an expression for those lower strings since they're set to not display in the score list...

Here's how it looks as I'm working in my full score:
full score 01.jpg
And when I change the score list to display on all the staves:
parts list 01.jpg
Maybe I made a duplicate of that original expression (working from my orchestration template) and Finale doesn't remember the text edits I did to that expression in the lower strings?

Granted, I've been using Finale a long time, but I'm not immune to dumb mistakes... But I don't see how I could've made it do this given the way I have it set up...

I just double checked, and when I have them all displaying they all move together when you grab the handle.... So I don't think it could be two expressions...

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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:57 pm

Check the copy filter and make sure everything is selected that should be.

If you're seeing both versions of the tempo mark in the same file, delete the one you don't want before copying and pasting.

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Post by DGByrne » Mon Sep 18, 2023 8:45 pm

Thanks Motet!


Yeah, everything is selected in the edit filter. I tried deleting the expression in the lower strings of my full score doc, and after some redraws and clicking around I got the right tempo mark to display on the lower staves. Unfortunately it happens again 10 measures later, and this time it picked a tempo mark I use later in the score, so I can't delete that one or it would disappear from it's rightful measure... I guess I can swap it out though.

Just a bummer to add another thing I have to look for and correct and proofread on a gig that has 10 cues and many, many, many tempo changes...

Finale always keeps you on your toes I guess, but I hate the feeling that at any moment something could pop up and ruin a recording session if you're not obsessively double checking everything...

Really wish I knew what made it do that, so I can future proof my template or whatever :(

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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:21 pm

If a tempo mark appears on the lower strings, I'd check the score lists that the tempo markings use.

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Post by DGByrne » Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:37 pm

Thanks! I think I may not be explaining it exactly right. I duplicated one of my pre-existing tempo marks in my template, edited the text to fit the right tempo and then added it to the right measure. In my full score template I use a score list called "Score 1" where I have it set so tempo marks display only on the top line, that's what all the tempo marks use, and I only use that one. If I edit that "Score 1" score list so it shows on the rest of the strings it shows the correct tempo mark on the top line, like it should, but a different tempo mark on the lower strings. I don't think it could be a case of me accidentally adding another tempo mark, because that wrong tempo mark would show on the top line since it's using my "Score 1" score list too and when I edit that score list I would get the original correct tempo mark on the lower strings alongside the wrong one. Seems more like some kind of Finale problem to me, was just wondering if anyone else had seen this behavior?

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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:22 pm

That does sound like a bug. Have you tried Document/Data check/File maintenance?

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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Sep 18, 2023 11:24 pm

You might also try deleting those tempo marks and recreating them.

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Post by DGByrne » Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:46 am

Thanks! I did try the File maintenance thing and it didn't seem to find anything. I'm almost through all the cues and it hasn't happened again even though I built each cue on the same template... part of the voodoo of music notation programs I guess.

Just wanted to say thank you Motet for being so helpful on this forum. I'm a loooooong time lurker, and just recently decided to actually post instead of poking around endlessly to find the answer. And I can say that I've used discussions you've been a part of countless times to fix something or do something better or find Finale tips. So thank you for putting in all the time :D

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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:26 pm

I used to create a new piece by taking an old piece which had all my modifications and custom expressions, etc. and gutting it of music. I vaguely remember running into trouble doing this--it seems that the gutting nevertheless left some internal data which piled up and eventually caused strange behavior. I wish I remembered the details.

I now maintain a separate "template" (actually just a .musx file) which I use to create new pieces, to which I don't add actual music. I don't know if that's what's going on with you but I thought I'd mention it.

DGByrne
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Post by DGByrne » Tue Sep 19, 2023 8:51 pm

I think that's it. That's how I work a lot, and I've experienced this quite often. Like, "Where did those hairpins come from?!?! They're not in the music I just pasted in... Oh, I guess they came from a piece somewhere in the distant memory of this template..."

I wish there was a "really clear all" command in Finale that would somehow eliminate those ghosts, as for practical reasons it's quicker sometimes to work that way...

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