staff spacing
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
How can I adjust the distance between staves on one system or page only without affecting my entire document? I am working on a full orchestra piece, so I have more than 20 staves on one system. I also have a lot of hidden staves because of the strings' divisions. It seems like "respacing" on staff tool does not work, so I have been dragging staves individually; it is so painful to do one by one like this.. and it is also not even at all.. Is there any way that I can just type numeric numbers so that only one system's staff spacing can be chanced? I have tried out with "page layout - edit margin" too but I had no luck either. It looked like only the margins of the system were changing.... I am using finale 2010.
-
Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6628
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Welcome to the forum!
"Individual Staff Spacing" is possible in Finale 2010, but it requires that you switch between two tools:
the Page Layout Tool and the Staff Tool.
The procedure is easier in the later Finale versions where it is done entirely in the Staff Tool.
To change staff spacing in one system only (Finale 2010):
Page Layout Tool.
Click the system to select it.
Page Layout menu > Systems > Allow Individual Staff Spacing
(or work faster by using the context menu)
When "Allow Individual Staff Spacing" is enabled for a specific system, Finale 2010 will display a special icon at the right end of that system.
Switch to the Staff Tool.
You will now see that in that system each staff has two staff-handles:
the ordinary staff-handle at the top staff-line
and
another (new) staff-handle at the bottom staff-line.
This new, lower staff-handle allows you to respace the staff in that system only.
To do so precisely, by typing numeric numbers:
Click the lower staff-handle to select it.
Staff menu > Staff Usage…
Tip:
For this type of layout work it is easier to use small Measurement Units, like Points or EVPUs (instead of the default Inches).
"Individual Staff Spacing" is possible in Finale 2010, but it requires that you switch between two tools:
the Page Layout Tool and the Staff Tool.
The procedure is easier in the later Finale versions where it is done entirely in the Staff Tool.
To change staff spacing in one system only (Finale 2010):
Page Layout Tool.
Click the system to select it.
Page Layout menu > Systems > Allow Individual Staff Spacing
(or work faster by using the context menu)
When "Allow Individual Staff Spacing" is enabled for a specific system, Finale 2010 will display a special icon at the right end of that system.
Switch to the Staff Tool.
You will now see that in that system each staff has two staff-handles:
the ordinary staff-handle at the top staff-line
and
another (new) staff-handle at the bottom staff-line.
This new, lower staff-handle allows you to respace the staff in that system only.
To do so precisely, by typing numeric numbers:
Click the lower staff-handle to select it.
Staff menu > Staff Usage…
Tip:
For this type of layout work it is easier to use small Measurement Units, like Points or EVPUs (instead of the default Inches).
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Thank you for your response. Actually I have been adjusting the staves with the way you explained (allow individual staff spacing), but wanted to know if there is any other way to do it. I have more than 20 staves per system, so this individual dragging is not only time consuming but also not making the space evenly. So, I was wondering if there is any other solution to make the staff spacing evenly without dragging one by one.
-
Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6628
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
I can understand why "trial and error" by dragging staves with the mouse can be very time consuming.
If you instead use the dialog box Staff Usage, you can set the spacing precisely by typing numbers => no "trial and error".
By The Way:
It is a lot easier in the later Finale versions where you can drag a staff, and simultaneously see the staff spacing displayed as you drag.
If you instead use the dialog box Staff Usage, you can set the spacing precisely by typing numbers => no "trial and error".
By The Way:
It is a lot easier in the later Finale versions where you can drag a staff, and simultaneously see the staff spacing displayed as you drag.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Thank you for your prompt reply and letting me know about the staff usage option. Can you explain a little bit more in detail what are the steps for me to follow on staff usage? I am sorry I haven't used the tool before, so I have a little hard time now.
Basically, I would like to adjust the space between staves evenly page by page...and I have a lot of hidden staves on each system. Thank you for your patience.
Basically, I would like to adjust the space between staves evenly page by page...and I have a lot of hidden staves on each system. Thank you for your patience.
-
Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6628
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Staff Tool.
In a system where "Allow Individual Staff Spacing" is enabled, drag-select the lower staff-handle on a staff.
Staff menu > Staff Usage…
In the dialog box Staff Usage you can specify the spacing for that particular staff in that particular system.
For this type of layout work it is easier to use small Measurement Units, like Points or EVPUs (instead of the default Inches).
In a system where "Allow Individual Staff Spacing" is enabled, drag-select the lower staff-handle on a staff.
Staff menu > Staff Usage…
In the dialog box Staff Usage you can specify the spacing for that particular staff in that particular system.
For this type of layout work it is easier to use small Measurement Units, like Points or EVPUs (instead of the default Inches).
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
-
Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6628
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
As I see it, the problem is not, 1) how to make the spacing even, but rather 2) how to make the spacing even, and at the same time make the spacing as big as possible within the page margins.
1) An example:
The spacing is even if the Distance From Top is
0 for 1st staff,
-60 Points for 2nd staff,
-120 Points for 3rd staff,
-180 Points for 4th staff,
-240 Points for 5th staff,
&c.
or
0 for 1st staff,
-50 Points for 2nd staff,
-100 Points for 3rd staff,
-150 Points for 4th staff,
-200 Points for 5th staff,
&c.
I think that you get the idea.
2) How to fill the page vertically.
How many different layout scalings are you using in your document?
- are you using Page Scaling?
- are you using System Scaling?
- are you using Staff Scaling?
The layout calculation can be quite complicated if you use multiple scalings at the same time.
To keep it simple, try this:
- Set the System Scaling to 100 %
- Set the Staff Scaling to 100 %
- This means that you only use one scaling, namely Page Scaling.
To "fill the page vertically" in a simple way (= with as little calculation as possible), find the total amount of extra vertical space, and distribute that amount equally on the staves.
The "total amount of extra vertical space" can be found without calculation via a simple "trial and error" trick:
Increase the vertical spacing of a single staff until the spacing is so big that you exceed the page's bottom margin.
Decrease the vertical spacing until you get back inside the page's bottom margin.
Continue until you have found the biggest value that keeps you inside the bottom margin.
You may e. g. find that the max. increase is 90 Points, so that any value higher than 90 Points will exceed the bottom margin.
If you have e. g. 11 staves, distribute the 90 Points with 9 Points on each of the 10 staves below the top staff.
I hope that this is clear?
If not, ask again.
1) An example:
The spacing is even if the Distance From Top is
0 for 1st staff,
-60 Points for 2nd staff,
-120 Points for 3rd staff,
-180 Points for 4th staff,
-240 Points for 5th staff,
&c.
or
0 for 1st staff,
-50 Points for 2nd staff,
-100 Points for 3rd staff,
-150 Points for 4th staff,
-200 Points for 5th staff,
&c.
I think that you get the idea.
2) How to fill the page vertically.
How many different layout scalings are you using in your document?
- are you using Page Scaling?
- are you using System Scaling?
- are you using Staff Scaling?
The layout calculation can be quite complicated if you use multiple scalings at the same time.
To keep it simple, try this:
- Set the System Scaling to 100 %
- Set the Staff Scaling to 100 %
- This means that you only use one scaling, namely Page Scaling.
To "fill the page vertically" in a simple way (= with as little calculation as possible), find the total amount of extra vertical space, and distribute that amount equally on the staves.
The "total amount of extra vertical space" can be found without calculation via a simple "trial and error" trick:
Increase the vertical spacing of a single staff until the spacing is so big that you exceed the page's bottom margin.
Decrease the vertical spacing until you get back inside the page's bottom margin.
Continue until you have found the biggest value that keeps you inside the bottom margin.
You may e. g. find that the max. increase is 90 Points, so that any value higher than 90 Points will exceed the bottom margin.
If you have e. g. 11 staves, distribute the 90 Points with 9 Points on each of the 10 staves below the top staff.
I hope that this is clear?
If not, ask again.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
