Cannot place cautionary key signature at end of system

[Florio]

I have a two alternating pieces, one in C minor and the second in C major. The second begins on a new page, so I would like to place a cautionary key signature at the end of the final bar of the bottom system on the previous page. However I cannot do this, even when I go to Measures and deselect Hide Cautionary Key Signature.

(This is the same document that is giving me problems as regards text editing!!)

Florio




Finale 2012c
Windows 7 Home Premium

[Peter Thomsen]

Again, without seeing an actual .mus document we can only guess.

Some few guesses:

- Is there perhaps an extra, inserted measure between the two movements?

- Is the following measure - in its Measure Attributes - set to hide the Key Signature?

- Are there any staff styles - set to, not display Key Signature?

[Florio]

There are no extra bars inserted, and I have not created any special staff styles. In the following bar, cautionary key signatures are not hidden.

I've enclosed the end and beginning respectively of the two movements, but once again everything is 'as it should be' in the copy, while the original won't allow me to have the cautionary key signature at the end of the first movement. I don't know therefore if you'll be able to make anything of it ...

Florio

[Peter Thomsen]

Indeed I find no problems with the document you attached.

This means that the culprit can be found in the stuff, that you deleted from the document.

You may be able to pinpoint the culprit via a binary search:

1) Make a duplicate copy of the problem document.
2) Make sure that the problem is present in the duplicate document.
3) Delete half of the stuff.
If the problem is still there, then you know that the culprit is in the half, you did not delete.
If the problem has gone away, then you know that the culprit is in the half, you deleted.
4) Repeat step 3) on the half with the culprit.

By repeating the steps 3) and 4) you can soon narrow down the region with the culprit.
An example:
After 6 "halvings" you are down to 1/64 of the document.

[Florio]

Thanks Peter.
There is definitely a problem somewhere in this document (yesterday those text lines were giving me problems again, but this morning I could edit them).
I'll follow your advice, but think it will be a lengthy process. I'll get back to you if I discover what the problem is and I cannot solve it!!
Florio

[Florio]

The problem is somewhere in the first half of the document. I've removed the first two movements, and I can now insert the cautionary key signature at the end of the system.

I've noticed something that you might be able to interpret. In scroll view, the bar numbers begin with 1:1 and continue up to 1:95, after which there is 96 to 124 and then 2:1 (124 should really be 2:1 as it is an anacrusis). I've checked the measure regions, and they seem to be correct. I'm wondering if the key signature problem isn't due to something strange happening with the measure regions here.

Florio

[Peter Thomsen]

The problem is somewhere in the first half of the document. I've removed the first two movements, and I can now insert the cautionary key signature at the end of the system.

I've noticed something that you might be able to interpret. In scroll view, the bar numbers begin with 1:1 and continue up to 1:95, after which there is 96 to 124 and then 2:1 (124 should really be 2:1 as it is an anacrusis). I've checked the measure regions, and they seem to be correct. I'm wondering if the key signature problem isn't due to something strange happening with the measure regions here.

Florio

This is important information, since what you describe (display of measure number regions), is a program setting, not a document setting.
I could not see that by examining your document.

Try this:
In the program settings for View, you have selected "Display Defined Measure Numbers", right?
Instead, select "Display Actual Measure Numbers".
Now try again to insert the cautionary key signature at the end of a system.
Has the problem gone away?

It could not hurt to try it.
And I know of a bug with "Display Defined Measure Numbers".
Your problem might be related to that bug.

[Florio]

Eureka!!
You were right, and I can now insert the cautionary key signature. I'll try playing around with this program option, since I would like the bar numbers to be displayed as defined. But at least I know what was causing the problem. Thanks Peter.
Florio

[Peter Thomsen]

Actually what happens, is that Finale inserts the cautionary key signature in the wrong measure, caused by the multiple measure number regions.

You could actually get the cautionary key signature in the right measure by trying to insert the cautionary key signature in the wrong measure - if you can figure, in what wrong measure you should insert the cautionary key signature.


In Other Words:
Finale actually does insert a cautionary key signature, but you don't see it because Finale inserts it in another measure (and that measure is probably not located at the end of a system).

[Florio]

Sorry to bother you again, Peter, but I've just noticed that my measure numbers have now disappeared completely since changing to Display Actual Measure Numbers. I've checked Staff Attributes and measure numbers should indeed be visible, but they are not. I'm beginning to think that there is a major bug in this document, somewhere, and that it is creating problems all over the place!
Florio

[Peter Thomsen]

Checking the Staff Attributes is not enough.

Also check that there is not a staff style that hides the measure numbers.

And check the Measure Number Regions.
If a Measure Number Region is set to, only display on the Top Staff, it will override the Staff Tool settings.
Note - By The Way - that you can have separate measure number settings for the score and for the linked parts.

And one thing more:
Check the Measure Attributes for the measures that do not display measure numbers.
Is the option "Include in Measure Numbering" selected or de-selected?