Secondary beams over rests, non-global.

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Dan_Knorr_Music
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Secondary beams over rests, non-global.

Post by Dan_Knorr_Music » Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:44 pm

Hi everybody,

I am working on engraving some music for the Sigurd Rascher Archive, lots of saxophone music from the 20th century. The archive has asked me to exactly reproduce the notation in the manuscripts, and this score I am working on has presented some irritating issues. I need to be able to have local instances of secondary beams extending over rests, while not affecting other areas of the score. I have photos attached below.

There are multiple instances of things like Example A, but in situations like Example B, I want to retain the broken beams. Finale handles Example A well when the global option for secondary beams over rests is selected (see Example C), but it alters Example B in an unsightly manner (see Example D).

I would like to have the secondary beams extend over the rests (as seen in Example C) without affecting every area of the score (such as Example D). Please let me know if you can help.

Thanks!
Dan Knorr
Attachments
Example C.jpg
Global secondary beam over rests working great!
Example C.jpg (13.72 KiB) Viewed 2222 times
Example B.jpg
Original Manuscript with beams not over rests
Example B.jpg (10.82 KiB) Viewed 2222 times
Example A.jpg
Original Manuscript with beams over rests
Example A.jpg (10.09 KiB) Viewed 2222 times

Re: Secondary beams over rests, non-global.

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Dan_Knorr_Music
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:51 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2014d
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Re: Secondary beams over rests, non-global.

Post by Dan_Knorr_Music » Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:46 pm

Here is the last photo, only 3 can be attached at a time,
Attachments
Example D.jpg
Unwanted beams over rests
Example D.jpg (20.23 KiB) Viewed 2221 times

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Secondary beams over rests, non-global.

Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:06 pm

My guess is that you have to make a choice for the “global” setting, and then do a workaround for the (hopefully) few cases that must differ from the “global” setting.

Whether the option “Extend Secondary Beams Over Rests” should be selected or de-selected, depends on, how many (few) workaround cases you get.



If you select “Extend Secondary Beams Over Rests”, then you can fix Example B with a workaround like this:

In stead of the Sixteenth rest, enter a tuplet:
1 Eighth in the space of 1 Sixteenth.
Make the tuplet display “Nothing” for Number and Shape.

Now the beaming will be as desired, but the rest will be wrong, since it is an 8th rest, not a 16th rest.
Hide the 8th rest, and enter a 16th rest in Voice 2 (not in Layer 2).
The feature {Voice 1 / Voice 2} in the Speedy Entry Tool is a little tricky:
You can not, directly, enter a rest in Voice 2.
Instead, enter in Voice 2 a note, and then change the note to a rest.



If you de-select “Extend Secondary Beams Over Rests”, then you can fix Example A with a workaround like this:

1) For the first 16th rest, just break the beam.

2) Enter the following 16th rests as notes.
This will give you the desired beaming
To make the 16th notes look like 16th rests,
- replace the notehead with the font character #197 (= 16th rest),
- replace the stem with an empty shape (use the Custom Stem Tool).
Mac OS X 10.13.6 (High Sierra), Finale user since 1996

Dan_Knorr_Music
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Re: Secondary beams over rests, non-global.

Post by Dan_Knorr_Music » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:24 pm

Thank you for the reply! I think the safest bet will be to use the second suggestion, entering notes but using 16th rest noteheads. This particular piece of music is very rhythmic and virtually every bar has an 8th note, 16th rest, 16th note consecutively, so there are thousands of unnecessary beams over rests. There are only maybe 10 instances of the beaming I need to take place, and this will surely solve it. Kind of tricky dont you think? Finale should include a way to more easily control secondary beams over rests. A special tool would do the trick, rather than just one checkbox to determine the fate of every poor little secondary beam.

Again, thanks for the help!

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: Secondary beams over rests, non-global.

Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:41 pm

Dan_Knorr_Music wrote:…Finale should include a way to more easily control secondary beams over rests. A special tool would do the trick, rather than just one checkbox to determine the fate of every poor little secondary beam…
Indeed it would be nice!
Do not forget to make a feature request to MakeMusic about this.

The more requests there are for a particular feature, the higher priority the request will get in MakeMusic’s development for the next Finale version.
That kind of makes sense:
MakeMusic first develops the features that are requested by many users.
Next come the features that are requested by fewer users.
Mac OS X 10.13.6 (High Sierra), Finale user since 1996

michael graubart
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Re: Secondary beams over rests, non-global.

Post by michael graubart » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:09 pm

I have a question about a much simpler — and much more common — beaming problem: how can I beam an eighth to a sixteenth with a sixteenth rest in between in a time-signature with eighths as the denominator, e.g. 5/8? The attached example demonstrates the problem.

I would in any case prefer to do this locally rather than globally, but even doing it globally would involve Special Tools, changing the tail of the eighth note to a simple vertical line whose thickness is made equal to the general beam thickness, and extending beams.

Thank you in anticipation of advice.

Beam over rest.musx
(100.6 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
Michael Graubart.

michael graubart
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Re: Secondary beams over rests, non-global.

Post by michael graubart » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:29 pm

Once again I must answer myself — to an extent. After posting the above, I tried opening a new Finale document, entering the notes in a 4/4 measure, selecting and copying them and pasting them into my 5/8 score. To my considerable amazement, it worked. But surely there is a more direct way of achieving this simple result?
Michael Graubart.

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motet
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Re: Secondary beams over rests, non-global.

Post by motet » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:50 pm

All you need do is put the Simple or Speedy cursor over the rest and press /

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