fingering

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HaraldS
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Re: fingering (Solved)

Post by HaraldS » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:23 pm

NickG wrote:I asked MM at one point if they could make the changes made in articulations global instead of document specific. They said that because of Finale's architecture, they couldn't do it. [...] Their solution was [...]
If you're referring to https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... in-Finale- : that wasn't Make Music answering you, that was me.

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Re: Re: fingering (Solved)

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NickG
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Re: fingering (Solved)

Post by NickG » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:03 pm

HaraldS wrote:
NickG wrote:I asked MM at one point if they could make the changes made in articulations global instead of document specific. They said that because of Finale's architecture, they couldn't do it. [...] Their solution was [...]
If you're referring to https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... in-Finale- : that wasn't Make Music answering you, that was me.

Harald
I see. Sorry about the mix up. No doubt the architecture part is true, but the solution Peter gave me seems to make the changes in articulations global(in a way). I'm a bit puzzled that MM couldn't be a bit more helpful.
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Luka Puka
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Re: fingering

Post by Luka Puka » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:20 am

I know this is solved, but I think there could've been a simpler answer...?
Couldn't you just have highlighted the fingering notation and then pressed the up arrow key? Or does that still make it snap back to the note? I've always used the arrow keys to make adjustments to expressions and articulations because it's too frustrating with the mouse.

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Re: fingering

Post by musicus » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:38 pm

Sorry for this late reply, and thanks for your posted reply to my vexation. The long melody lines in layer 2 represent the vocal melody line in a piano transcription of "In Paradisum." The full context is not visible here for obvious reasons, but the first page of the transcription can be previewed here: http://scarlatt9.wixsite.com/transcript ... -paradisum
John Ruggero wrote:This is quite a late reply, Musicus, but maybe it will help you or someone else, and it certainly helps me because I am practicing using this site for the first time in a very long time!

The problem is that you are attaching the number 1 (articulation) to the layer 1 16th-rest rather than the layer 2 note B. Finale has trouble with articulations attached to rests and they jump around. It is not clear to me why you have the long melody notes in layer 2 and the faster notes in layer 1, but if this is what you really want, delete the 1 and input it again while in layer 2. You might also turn off "avoid staff lines" and "center horizontally" in the articulation designer for your finger numbers if you want maximum flexibility in positioning them. Double click on the handle of each finger number to get to the articulation designer for that number.

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Re: piano fingering above and below the staves

Post by Komponist » Thu May 10, 2018 12:44 am

Hello, everyone. I'm new to the forum, although I've been scouring your old conversations for a long time. I didn't know where you went until today when I got a reply from MM about the issues I've been having with piano fingering - which brought me here and is the substance of my question. I've been trying to figure out how to keep all the treble clef fingering above the staff and all the bass clef fingering below the staff, as per Elaine Gould's music notation guide, "Behind Bars." None of the responses that I've gotten from MM actually do what they say those solutions will do. I've also searched the Beginners and General Finale Help for answers before posting this. So, I'm turning to the forum for some help. Anyone figured this out?

P.S. I don't know if this the proper place for the question, but this is my first time, and you're all talking about the subject. If there's another forum or method for such posts, let me know, and I'll get it right the next time.

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: piano fingering above and below the staves

Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu May 10, 2018 4:47 am

Komponist wrote:… I've been trying to figure out how to keep all the treble clef fingering above the staff and all the bass clef fingering below the staff …
Are you using the Articulation Tool or the Expression Tool?

Anyway, I would use two sets of fingerings: one set to position above the staff, and another set to position below the staff.
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motet
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Re: fingering

Post by motet » Thu May 10, 2018 6:42 am

The come-with-Finale fingering articulations are above the note. It helps to edit each of them and check "Always place outside staff." Like Peter says, you can duplicate these and create a parallel set for below the note.

This of course doesn't address stacks of two or more fingerings, very common, which you'd have to drag up manually. Surely someone has solved this satisfactorily by now, and perhaps will comment here.

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Peter Thomsen
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Re: fingering

Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu May 10, 2018 3:17 pm

motet wrote:… This of course doesn't address stacks of two or more fingerings, very common, which you'd have to drag up manually. Surely someone has solved this satisfactorily by now, and perhaps will comment here.
You can use the Shape Designer to create shapes with all the stacks of two or more fingerings (they are not that many).

Then you can use the “stack shapes” as shape articulations, or as shape expressions.
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motet
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Re: fingering

Post by motet » Thu May 10, 2018 3:43 pm

I wonder if there is a font of the stacked numbers.

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N Grossingink
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Re: fingering

Post by N Grossingink » Thu May 10, 2018 4:05 pm

motet wrote:I wonder if there is a font of the stacked numbers.
http://ansgarkrause.com/fonts/Piano_Fingering.html

Ansgar Krause has been a member of the old Make Music Forum and possibly this here forum, too. His font also seems to solve the requirement of above and below staff placement.

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John Ruggero
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Re: fingering

Post by John Ruggero » Thu May 10, 2018 5:37 pm

In my experience, positioning piano fingering is too complex a task to be automated because of various spacing issues, and I insert each one manually using hotkeys. Gould's "rule" is only a generalization, as she implies, and in practice, fingering symbols can be found practically anywhere in relation to the staves. And I find stacking three or four finger numbers a non-issue because it is needed so rarely.
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motet
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Re: fingering

Post by motet » Thu May 10, 2018 6:02 pm

But if two more more numbers are stacked, they're always in the same position relative to one another, even if their distance from the note is variable, no?

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Re: fingering

Post by Komponist » Thu May 10, 2018 6:36 pm

Thank you all for your suggestions and links. They have been very helpful. Because I am writing and publishing music for beginning piano students, I need to use more fingering than I would otherwise use, including three- and four-note combinations. I've been using the articulation tool and hot keys to put my fingering in, but I like all your suggestions. I'll try setting up both treble and bass staff versions of fingering and creating fingering combinations as shapes first. I'm very interesting in the new fingering font mentioned in the link, but I'd like to try making the software that I've already bought work for me in this. If I do end of buying the new font, I'll post my thoughts about here so that others can consider that solution for themselves.

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Re: fingering

Post by miker » Thu May 10, 2018 7:48 pm

Speaking as a person with a shop full of tools, I would say never waste time trying to achieve a good result with a less than good tool. Yes, Finale can do a lot of things, but if, for a few dollars, you can get something that will probably do it better, don’t hesitate.

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John Ruggero
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Re: fingering

Post by John Ruggero » Fri May 11, 2018 2:49 pm

motet wrote:But if two more more numbers are stacked, they're always in the same position relative to one another, even if their distance from the note is variable, no?
Sometimes stacked numbers represent alternative fingerings with or without lines between, sometimes one is regular type and one is italicized, sometimes slurs have to run between the stacked numbers, sometimes some are in the staff and have to be carefully coordinated with the staff lines etc. GIven the many situations that arise, and the fact that there are too many combinations for keyboard shortcuts, I find it much easier to insert them all manually. And I only use two or more when absolutely necessary, since one is usually sufficient.
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