MM Feature requests

[miker]

I don't care how long you have been using Finale--you can't know what other people's experience is like. To argue that your experience is the one true one and that everyone else is mistaken or doing something wrong strikes me as arrogant and not very helpful.

How is this helpful? Some people do use Finale trouble-free for years. Does that mean they should keep quiet?

Not at all. If all is well with them, that's great. And they are welcome to say so. But they should not infer that just because it works on their system, that other people are doing something wrong.

Often, a poster may ask, "Does anyone else have this problem?" This is asking for information, and it's very helpful if others running the same version on the same system (i. e. Finale 25 on windows 10) can check and respond. Hence, the forum request that everyone post their Finale version and OS in their signature.

Play nice, guys.

[OCTO]

A wishlist doesn't need ultimately to include only the bug fixes, and only about the bugs.

I speak here about the wishes people list on their site, and they get numbers. Well, I don't see any follow up how that numbers transforms into some discussion from MM side about eventual implementation.
Just go from the oldest posts (backwards) and you will see many interesting topics.
One recent, by our friend John, about why Finale asks you to save changes when you just opened a document without touching it? Do you know of any software doing the same?

There are some improvements in notation: how the software solves notation issues.
Another improvements are concerning how software acts in notating, how it keeps what is done and in what % it executes the user's instruction.

Give me an example:
You want to enter 16 notes in cross staff in piano.
You enter all notes in one stave, than using a shortcut they move down.
The problem is the optical spacing and accidental spacing which is not included when cross staff is applied. So, Finale doesn't execute what you wish to see exactly.
Than you move each accidental and each note in order to get correct spacing (and only YOU are the main judge).
Good, but not good. If it happens that you touch anything in this edited system, the notes get re-spaced.
That is a huge waste of time. I mean, HUGE if you will edit hundreds of that kind of measures.

Not to speak about their vision to close an immense important forum which they hosted for almost 20 years. I just still feel hopeless.

[ebiggs1]

Ron,
"What "rambling way" with regards to the placement of expressions and articulations?"

Possibly 'rambling' is not the correct word but what do you call it when Finale leaves an accent mark over a rest? Just an example there are more. Perhaps that is a new music concept! I know I can easily delete the accent mark but why should I have to?

"You have full control over that and MM has made it easy for you to set up your preferences in that regard."

Here again the word 'easy' might be replaced with 'tedious'.

Thanx for your clarification about the programmers. There is a never ending rumor mill out there on the ole inner web.

[ebiggs1]

Ron,
"They lost a lot of top people a few years ago when they move halfway across the country, but have been rebuilding their staff."

You could submit the word 'Sibelius' here, too!

[motet]

If it happens that you touch anything in this edited system, the notes get re-spaced.

You might try Undo at that point and see if it undoes just the spacing.

[SMS]

Let's face it- Finale has always had a LOT of very odd implementations of features and quirky interface design, as well as significant bugs. I simply don't understand the logic of why some choices were made when implementing certain features, and designing the UI. Let's also face that music notation is a very difficult thing to do with software. If it weren't, there would be more choices available for us. If it were easy, Sibelius would be clearly a better choice, and Dorico would instantly be the answer to all our prayers. I use Finale a lot and almost always find something to get irritated about. So what. It's a great tool, and we all want it to be better. Any of us is free to start our own software company and compete. We are also free to do all we can to get the things in Finale that are problems for us fixed, improved, or added. Foot stomping and hand-wringing, no matter how justified, is just not productive. You want to vent? Okay, we all understand frustration. But I doubt it's speeding up the progress. Octo, I understand every complaint you have and my heart goes out to you. We will all do what we can to help find ways for you to get your work done. That's what this forum is for. The old forum is gone. The MM forum is not to your liking. You have been heard and empathized with. We just don't have answers for questions like "Why don't they fix my issue faster?".

It's arguably the best tool available for what we're doing, if it weren't, we'd use something else. We want it to be better. I want my hair back.

Thank you Finale, in all your flawed beauty, for being available, and I hope you continue to get better in as straight a line as possible.

Spence

[BuonTempi]

Well said, Spence.

I would certainly never argue that Finale has "fixed all the bugs", and I agree that every user has a different experience with the app. There is still much to be done, but that is best done by engaging with MM. I myself have submitted bug fixes and feature requests that have been implemented.

As to articulations: Fermatas are an example of an articulation that goes on rests. But Finale is currently not intelligent about different symbols: you choose to put an articulation on a note or rest, and its appearance depends entirely on the font and glyph you selected. However, the introduction of SMuFL into Finale may allow for Finale to know more about each symbol and apply rules accordingly.

[OCTO]

Dear friends, I really do agree with all of you.
I just want to share my opinion, well forum is done for that purpose, and want to hear if that is ONLY me that has this opinion about further development of Finale.
What my initial 'question' is that I feel a large distance between MM's leadership and MM's customers. Sometimes I feel we are on two different planets.

A quick question: Does Finale 25 utilise multicore CPU or uses ONE core only? How does it utilise GPU?

[gogreen]

I feel a large distance between MM's leadership and MM's customers. Sometimes I feel we are on two different planets.

That's an interesting observation, and I agree.

[miker]

I feel a large distance between MM's leadership and MM's customers. Sometimes I feel we are on two different planets.

That's an interesting observation, and I agree.

I tend to agree as well, from a customer standpoint. However, active forum users are a pretty small subset of MM's customer base. There are a lot of other people out there who either don't complain and request, and don't participate here or on MM's own forum. Further, I suspect that SmartMusic is a much larger income producer, and, as such, gets more attention. In the end, we're dealing with stockholders and corporate suits.

[BuonTempi]

A quick question: Does Finale 25 utilise multicore CPU or uses ONE core only? How does it utilise GPU?

I can only speak to the Mac side: Finale 25 certainly uses more threads than previously, so multicore CPUs will take advantage of that to spread the load. It still maxes one core during playback. I'm not sure that it "actively" uses the GPU -- it leaves that to the OS to sort out.

Another thing is that it (in my experience) significantly more CPU-efficient than previous versions. My laptop battery would run down much quicker with Finale merely open -- no documents!. But this is much reduced and I get much more typical battery life.

I'd be interested to know which companies provide a better or more ideal relationship with their userbase. MM are bending over backwards compared to other large software companies I can think of!

[FergusMac]

I have just come over from MakeMusic's forum and discovered this discussion. I could not agree more with Spence's remarks. Finale is flawed, but it does what it does better than any other product. It is too bad that those who try to defend Finale get slammed mercilessly because of their "overzealous loyalty to MakeMusic." What is wrong with posting that Finale is a great product and that it works? It's like owning a Porsche and complaining that it isn't a Lamborgini.

[ebiggs1]

"But Finale is currently not intelligent about different symbols:"

It knows enough to not play them. I am not a programmer so I have no idea but I do know what I want. Not restricting the issue to just leaving an accent mark on a rest, things like this need to be ironed out because that is how music works.

[ebiggs1]

"I'd be interested to know which companies provide a better or more ideal relationship with their userbase."

Well it wouldn't be Adobe for sure. Probably not Microsoft either.

[David Ward]

Many of my compositions are flawed, but that doesn't stop me from hoping - believing, even - that they are worthwhile…

I'd like to apply the same principle to Finale. Perfect it is not, but worth having it is.

[ebiggs1]

Perfect it is not, but worth having it is.

I think we all agree on that. But we still want and hope for better.

[Jay Emmes]

As to articulations: Fermatas are an example of an articulation that goes on rests.

Yes, fermatas and caesuras are examples of 'articulations' that can go on a rest, but they're not even articulations in the first place. Had they been in a different category (tempo alterations e.g., which they are, or a category on their own), all articulations could be automatically removed when the note turns into a rest.

There will always be a lot to hope for in terms of functionality, speed and stability. And, as with all in life: never be content with what is — always strive for improvement. That said, I think it is important to communicate all our wishes to MakeMusic. Who knows, perhaps one fine day any of our specific wishes may be implemented in a new version.

[Knut]

I have just come over from MakeMusic's forum and discovered this discussion. I could not agree more with Spence's remarks. Finale is flawed, but it does what it does better than any other product. It is too bad that those who try to defend Finale get slammed mercilessly because of their "overzealous loyalty to MakeMusic." What is wrong with posting that Finale is a great product and that it works? It's like owning a Porsche and complaining that it isn't a Lamborgini.

Oh, common! That was a tongue-in-cheek remark directed at Ron's apparently serious complaint about those who complain.

The point, at least as I see it, is that most complaints and praise stems from totally subjective experiences. For anyone to dismiss another user's negative experiences with statements like 'There's no way you're having these troubles, because I certainly don't', is both arrogant and unhelpful.

[motet]

Bravo, Spence, above. Really thoughtful posting.

I think it's therapeutic to vent and commiserate, and helpful to get a reality check. I realize it may be tedious to read such postings if you're not feeling that way, but cutting those complaining some slack might be the best way to go.

[HaraldS]

Yes, fermatas and caesuras are examples of 'articulations' that can go on a rest, but they're not even articulations in the first place. Had they been in a different category (tempo alterations e.g., which they are, or a category on their own), all articulations could be automatically removed when the note turns into a rest.

Fermatas and ceasuras are only predefined as articulations in the default articualtion library which gets loaded with the default document. But Finale merely offers objects (called expressions, articulations, lyrics, textblocks...) which the user can, should and eventually must fill with the symbols he needs. Of course, Fermatas and ceasuras are offered as pre-defined articulations, but no one says that this makes sense for every situation or that this is the most sensible way of thinking about those items.

Many solutions for akward problems in the last 20 years were found by using a Finale object for another purpose than what it was designed for, e.g. inserting fingerings as lyrics, text as smart shapes, barlines as shape expressions and the like.

But I agree that there should be more logic behind articulations. I would love to have a programmable logic (e.g. in JWLua) in every articulation which gets executed each time the articulation is created, deleted, gets moved or is played back.

Harald

[ebiggs1]

I would love to have a programmable logic (e.g. in JWLua) in every articulation which gets executed each time the articulation is created, deleted, gets moved or is played back.
Harald

Whatever the reason or logic behind the inability to recognise 'whatever' is beyond my feeble brain. But it boils down to, you can't trust Finale. That is why we proof read, I guess.

[FergusMac]

I have just come over from MakeMusic's forum and discovered this discussion. I could not agree more with Spence's remarks. Finale is flawed, but it does what it does better than any other product. It is too bad that those who try to defend Finale get slammed mercilessly because of their "overzealous loyalty to MakeMusic." What is wrong with posting that Finale is a great product and that it works? It's like owning a Porsche and complaining that it isn't a Lamborgini.

Oh, common! That was a tongue-in-cheek remark directed at Ron's apparently serious complaint about those who complain.

The point, at least as I see it, is that most complaints and praise stems from totally subjective experiences. For anyone to dismiss another user's negative experiences with statements like 'There's no way you're having these troubles, because I certainly don't', is both arrogant and unhelpful.

What a pleasant welcome to a newcomer!

[OCTO]

I have just come over from MakeMusic's forum and discovered this discussion. I could not agree more with Spence's remarks. Finale is flawed, but it does what it does better than any other product. It is too bad that those who try to defend Finale get slammed mercilessly because of their "overzealous loyalty to MakeMusic." What is wrong with posting that Finale is a great product and that it works? It's like owning a Porsche and complaining that it isn't a Lamborgini.

Oh, common! That was a tongue-in-cheek remark directed at Ron's apparently serious complaint about those who complain.

The point, at least as I see it, is that most complaints and praise stems from totally subjective experiences. For anyone to dismiss another user's negative experiences with statements like 'There's no way you're having these troubles, because I certainly don't', is both arrogant and unhelpful.

What a pleasant welcome to a newcomer!

That is called a "Finale Forum Initiation" - it is never soft.

[BuonTempi]

Well, here's a feature request: perhaps Articulations should have categories like Expressions, and the options should include a tickbox for "can be on a rest".

One of the beauties of Finale is its flexibility. To take another example: currently, you can put a lyric on a rest. Dorico doesn't let you do that. Now some would say that there's no need, and that Finale shouldn't let you do that either. However, I read a discussion in the old forum where some people argued against implementing that, because they used that capability to achieve a certain effect.

I dare say there's someone doing some kind of notation that uses rests to represent different characters in a different font, and need to put some different symbol as an articulation on the top.

I would also suggest that it can be helpful to say "I can't replicate the problem you're having", as that might indicate that the problem can be fixed, or that its cause can be isolated.

[Knut]

I have just come over from MakeMusic's forum and discovered this discussion. I could not agree more with Spence's remarks. Finale is flawed, but it does what it does better than any other product. It is too bad that those who try to defend Finale get slammed mercilessly because of their "overzealous loyalty to MakeMusic." What is wrong with posting that Finale is a great product and that it works? It's like owning a Porsche and complaining that it isn't a Lamborgini.

Oh, common! That was a tongue-in-cheek remark directed at Ron's apparently serious complaint about those who complain.

The point, at least as I see it, is that most complaints and praise stems from totally subjective experiences. For anyone to dismiss another user's negative experiences with statements like 'There's no way you're having these troubles, because I certainly don't', is both arrogant and unhelpful.

What a pleasant welcome to a newcomer!

I'm sorry for the harsh initiation, FergusMac, but you reap what you sow.