German eszett in Finale lyrics font

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jroot
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Post by jroot » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:17 pm

Hello all,

Is there a way to type the Eszett (ß) in Finale Lyrics Font? the symbol shows up in Times NR, but disappears when changed to Finale Lyrics. I'm transcribing some early Schoenberg songs, which are very horizontally dense, and TNR looks awfully cluttered. Thoughts? Should I just go with double S?

Thanks,
JR
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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:49 pm

I'm afraid I'm not sure of the equivalent in Windows, but on my Mac I just tried and had no difficulty entering ß in Finale Lyrics font. I selected the German flag in my Apple language menu and typed into the score with the appropriate key stroke.

I would expect there to be a Windows equivalent, but what it is I don't know.
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MikeHalloran
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Post by MikeHalloran » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:26 am

Unfortunately, the 2014 User manual gives only the following:

Finale Lyrics Font

The Finale Lyrics font contains standard text characters. It was designed specifically for optimal lyric spacing. (To see a complete list of characters, use your system's font character map.)
Mike Halloran

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miker
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Post by miker » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:44 am

Like Peter, I only have a Mac. But PopChar shows it in the FL font, so I'm sure it's in the Windows, as well. Looking at the character viewer should show it. You might try ALT+223 or Alt+225. Other fonts seem to have it in those positions.
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:33 am

JR,

If you can not make {the keyboard shortcut to ß} (= Alt-0223) work, then try Finale’s dialog box Symbol Selection.
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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:32 am

David Ward wrote: I selected the German flag in my Apple language menu and typed into the score with the appropriate key stroke.
With the standard English layout (US or UK), you should be able to get a ß with Alt S.

jroot
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Post by jroot » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:47 pm

Hi Peter,

I tried this. In the symbol dialog, character 223 shows up as a blank space (although the description in the lower left corner indicates that the sharp S *should* be there). Consequently, when I type Alt 0223, I get a blank space in the lyrics. Could this be a Windows issue?

JR
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BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:52 pm

Definitely worth raising with MM. Any other Windows users out there?

Graeme Gilmore
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Post by Graeme Gilmore » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:42 am

The problem is that the Finale Lyrics font does not have an eszett. The slot 223 is empty. You can also check this by opening a Microsoft Word document and typing Alt+0223. The ß appears (as it just did here). Still in Word, select the symbol and change the font to Finale Lyrics. The ß becomes an empty space.

The easiest workaround is to use the alternate spelling "ss." Another must be done in the Lyrics Window. Enter text using the Finale Lyrics font. Then enter the first ß using Alt-0223. The blank space appears. Select the blank space and change the font to Times New Roman. The ß appears. That ß can be copied and pasted in other locations in the Lyrics Window. This is the same approach used to enter the (pre-Unicode) elision slur used in much Italian vocal music. For more details, search on "elision slur" in the Finale Help file.
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miker
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Post by miker » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:52 am

As BT said, definitely worth raising the issue. This is exactly the kind of thing that could be taken care of with just a few minutes work in their font editor, and released immediately.

Isn't that what they more-or-less told us they would be doing?

Has anyone sent it in?
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jroot
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Post by jroot » Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:05 am

I just filed a support ticket. Will let you know the response.
JR

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miker
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Post by miker » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:03 pm

Finale has corrected the omission. They sent me new versions of the Finale Lyrics, Lyrics Bold, and Lyrics Italic, all .ttf. Since I have a Mac, they don't do me any good. I asked if they would be posted on the MM site, but in the meantime, send me an email at wawoodman at aol dot com, and I will forward them along.

I'm sure you Windows guys know this, but they said after installing the font, to restart Windows, so that Finale will recognize the fonts .

Thanks, MM and Kevin, for the quick response!
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MikeHalloran
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Post by MikeHalloran » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:29 pm

MM needs to update the fonts at this link:
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... ncorrectly

These appear to be the ones that installed with 2014.5 or 25/25.1. They are not the Dec. 16, 2016 updated versions that come with 25.2 on and there are some changes to some of them including SMuFL support for Maestro.ttf.

I notice that the fonts with 25.4 have create dates of June 21, 2017. Except for that, all 38 Mac fonts are identical with the ones in 25.2/3.

Having the latest does not mean that they install (on a Mac, at least).

As far as I can tell, SMuFL support for Maestro means that, if you import via MusicXML a file created in an SMuFL font, Maestro should now display the Unicode characters in Finale. Compatible does not = compliant.

Anyway, once that link is updated to the latest and greatest, those fonts should be available to older versions of Finale, too, without having to download the demo and installing them from there.
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jroot
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Post by jroot » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:47 pm

Hi All,

Here are the two replies I got from MM. (Editorializing: "Customer success"? Whose idea was that?!)
------------------------------
Thanks for contacting the MakeMusic Customer Success team!

You are absolutely correct that our Finale Lyrics font should have the Eszett character. This character does appear in the Mac version of the font. Our resident Font expert was able to add this character to the Windows TTF fonts (Plain, Bold, and Italic), which I have attached to this email. Could you please download and install these three fonts? Please remember to restart your computer so that Windows can properly register the fonts for use in Finale.

-------------------------------
I meant to mention in my last email that we're working on an OpenType update to these fonts that we'll make available to the public in the not too distant future. The update will include this missing glyph on Windows, plus the new glyphs, like the ellipsis, scarons, eths, zcarons, etc.

I hope this helps! Please let me know if you have any questions about this.

Cheers!

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:52 am

This is a very old topic, but I searched for it after reading about the missing character (ß) on the official MakeMusic forum (which I don't use, aside from reading occasionally). The OP didn't get any satisfaction as to the resolution. I found the corrected font that MakeMusic sent me back a few years ago when I reported the missing ß in the Finale Lyrics Font. I just assumed newer versions of Finale would automatically have the updated font. That is not the case. If anyone would like to direct the OP on that forum over here, I can be of help in terms of what needs to be done to get the proper font and thus the missing character (ß).

Zuill

P.S.: This is a Windows only issue. The Finale Lyrics Font that ships with Finale 26 is Version 1.3. The Fixed font is version 1.4.
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michelp
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Post by michelp » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:59 am

miker wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:03 pm
They sent me new versions of the Finale Lyrics, Lyrics Bold, and Lyrics Italic, all .ttf. Since I have a Mac, they don't do me any good.
Hi miker,
Not sure I understand your remark.
.ttf fonts (Truetype fonts) are perfectly usable on a Mac. Just add them to your Font Book. The ttf format is compatible with MacOs and Windows.
Michel
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Post by mknoll » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:58 pm

I think what miker meant was that since the eszett was never missing from the Mac version of the Finale Lyrics font, getting the version that was specifically updated to include it for Windows users wouldn't be of any use to him, because it didn't provide anything that he didn't already have.

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miker
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Post by miker » Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:34 pm

michelp wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:59 am
miker wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:03 pm
They sent me new versions of the Finale Lyrics, Lyrics Bold, and Lyrics Italic, all .ttf. Since I have a Mac, they don't do me any good.
Hi miker,
Not sure I understand your remark.
.ttf fonts (Truetype fonts) are perfectly usable on a Mac. Just add them to your Font Book. The ttf format is compatible with MacOs and Windows.
I honestly don't remember. Sorry.
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:59 pm

Well, I can see from the "other" forum that the OP has decided to use TNR to get the ß. That's one way. The Finale Lyrics Font is basically a narrower version of TNR, which can help to achieve a less cluttered look in the score.

Anyway, I tried. If anyone does want the version 1.4 of the font for Windows, I might be of help. I got mine directly from MM 6 years ago when the glitch was discovered, and the updated font was created. I'm wondering why they chose not to bundle the fixed version with more recent Finale updates. Makes no sense to me.

If I was permitted to upload the font here, I would, for those who want it. However, I'm not sure I have the permission to do so. It is not available for download on the MM site, as a standalone download. I don't know if the Fontpack has the newer version, so I can't recommend that approach as a fix.

Zuill
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miker
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Post by miker » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:51 am

I went to the website, but the only Download page seemed to be your registered programs. I didn’t see the general downloads page where could have looked for a font pack, or something similar. Was that removed, or did I just miss it?
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:20 am

I saw the FontPack downloads on the page linked earlier in this topic (Mike Halloran).

I too couldn't find fonts on the download page. I was intrigued to see version 27 as one of the options in the list. What does that mean? Is there a version in Beta testing?

Zuill
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