Crescendos/decrescendos that won't stay as I draw them

[mark carlson]

I keep having this happen in various movements of this piece. (Again, if it matters, it was written and copied originally in Finale in 1992).

I put in a hairpin, either descrescendo or crescendo, have it perfectly placed, and then the next time I see it, it is extended beyond where I want it to end. I've deleted them and then put them in from scratch, only to have the same thing happen. I've tried selecting the end of the hairpin and moving it back with the mouse or with the back arrow key, but this does not help.

An example: In m. 31 of the attached movement, in the piano, the decrescendo is supposed to end right before the p, but it keeps extending past it, slightly into the next measure. Can anyone help me figure out why this is happening and how I can get it to stop? It is not unique to this movement, btw, I am sorry to say. In a different movement, I had to copy the decrescendo that was in the flute part into the piano to get it to stay put.

Thanks,

Mark

Finale 25
Mac OS 10.11.6

[zuill]

This is a known issue cause by independent time signatures. I'm not sure there is a fix. I'll try to think back over the past as to anything I might remember. Motet has experience with this as well, amongst others. Let's see if anyone chimes in here.

You might just want to drag it to the right and let it snap back. Keep doing that until it snaps back to where you want it.

Zuill

[mark carlson]

OK Thanks!

The independent time signatures, by the way, were only because, back in the early days of Finale, it was incredibly labor-intensive to create triplets, so as I time saver, since the piano plays almost nothing but triplets, I just gave it independent meters of 12/8 and 18/8. It might look silly, but inputting it thus saved me a huge amount of time.

Mark

[motet]

I haven't had to deal with independent time signatures for a while and was unaware of this. It used to be in older versions, before hairpins became attached to beats, that you would have trouble drawing the hairpin in this situation--the endpoint would move a different amount than you dragged. But you always saw what you got--there was no jumping when the hairpin was selected like there is here. I suspect the bug here is that same bug that never got fixed, and when ported to the new design it manifests itself differently.

The solution used to be to draw the hairpin in another, non-independent staff and copy it in, but that doesn't work here.

If you print, you'll find the slur's real position is shown when the slur is not selected (redrawing the screen with ctrl-D will always take you to reality). But it looks like you can get what you want by dragging the endpoint in its false state. The real endpoint will move, but you must redraw with ctrl-D to see where it moved to. The endpoint will still be selected and shown in its false place, so you can do drag (or use arrows), ctrl-D, drag, ctrl-D... until you get what you want.

Seems like a pretty serious bug. I can report this.

[mark carlson]

Thank you! I will try it first thing in the morning.

[motet]

I found interspersing arrow keys and Ctrl-D helpful to get it just right.

This of course affects other beat-attached smart shapes as well (and I guess the problem existed there all along). The above fix is probably not immune to measure respacing, so if it changes, you'll need to retweak, and score and parts may be different.

[motet]

And, it looks like there's a problem with independent time signatures and clef changes:

[Peter Thomsen]

And, it looks like there's a problem with independent time signatures and clef changes:

Yes, this is a well known issue.

[zuill]

Regarding the hairpins, the JW Change plugin might be of help, but it's hard to say. It doesn't correct the misbehavior, but after applying a setting, what shows, at least for me, is how it should show after a redraw.

Zuill

[mark carlson]

And, it looks like there's a problem with independent time signatures and clef changes:

Is there any solution to this?

Thanks,

Mark

[mark carlson]

I found interspersing arrow keys and Ctrl-D helpful to get it just right.

This of course affects other beat-attached smart shapes as well (and I guess the problem existed there all along). The above fix is probably not immune to measure respacing, so if it changes, you'll need to retweak, and score and parts may be different.

This has worked so far! I hope it sticks!

Thanks!

[motet]

For the clef you can use the measure spacing handles at the bottom of the staff in the Measure tool (make sure "show handles" is checked in the menu) to add extra space at the end of the measure.

[motet]

I heard back from MM on this. They acknowledge the problem but claim it's unpredictable and hard to reproduce. Say what? I tried to set them straight, so maybe they'll take is seriously and play around with it some more.

[mark carlson]

Thanks! It's pretty predictable on my end! I found another one in the same movement and just fixed using the arrow followed by redraw until it's in the right place. But that shouldn't be necessary.