Formatting: Default hairpin length

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

Post Reply
User avatar
apkyburz
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:50 am
Finale Version: 26 (+TG, Pattsn, JW)
Operating System: Mac

Post by apkyburz » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:52 pm

Hello Forum,

Is there a way to change Finale's default sizes & placement of hairpins? When placing them, they tend to get too close to the barline/adjacent note/etc. on the right side.

Slurs seem to be pretty well manageable; in case there is such a thing for the pins as well, please point me to it.

Finale 25, Mac.

Thanks,
A. P.


User avatar
Michel R E
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:16 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2012, 25, 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Michel R E » Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:57 pm

sadly, there doesn't seem to be any way to automate the erroneous hairpin placement that Finale 25 uses by default.
and complaints to MakeMusic appear to have fallen on deaf ears (ironic for a music software company).
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8229
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:09 pm

For what it's worth, what Finale does is exactly what Elaine Gould suggests in "Behind Bars." If there's more than one staff, though, I agree that going all the way to the barline between staves is not good, though this is fine in a one-staff part. I usually back it off a couple of nudges in that case.

BuonTempi
Posts: 1297
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:59 am
Finale Version: Finale 27
Operating System: Mac

Post by BuonTempi » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:26 pm

Michel R E wrote:sadly, there doesn't seem to be any way to automate the erroneous hairpin placement that Finale 25 uses by default.
and complaints to MakeMusic appear to have fallen on deaf ears (ironic for a music software company).
.... Except for their inclusion of the "Snap When Attaching To Beats" toggle in the Smart Shapes menu, which was introduced in response to criticism of the new hairpins.
I seem to recall someone working on a plug-in or Lua script to ameliorate the positions. In fact, JW Change has a number of items that might be globally applied to improve matters.

User avatar
N Grossingink
Posts: 1786
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:50 pm
Finale Version: 27.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by N Grossingink » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:31 pm

motet wrote:For what it's worth, what Finale does is exactly what Elaine Gould suggests in "Behind Bars."
Maybe I misunderstand, but what does Finale "do" to set the start or end point of a hairpin? That seems to be a chore that's up to the user.

N.

EDIT - Never mind, I forgot about the "snap" feature, which initially did not appeal to me. I think it might be time for me to take another look.
N. Grossingink
Educational Band, Orchestra and Jazz Ensemble a specialty
Sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pFF5OeJDeLFGHMRyXrubFqZWXBubErw4/view?usp=share_link


Mac Mini 2014 2.6 Ghz, 8Gb RAM
OSX 10.15.7
Finale 2012c, 25.5, 26.3, 27.3

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:54 pm

Finale has 2 options when it comes to applying hairpins. They still anchor to beats, but the endpoint can be released at a manual position with one of the options.

Also, Jari's plugin for hairpins gives a lot more options. I believe there's one for applying and one for modifying.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
motet
Posts: 8229
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
Operating System: Windows

Post by motet » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:09 pm

I use JW plug-ins to apply hairpins. Someone pointed me to an Autohotkey interface to JW stuff that I'm eternally grateful for, and I've set it up so that typing `< creates a crescendo on the selected beats and `> a decrescendo, at a standard distance below the staff (corresponding to dynamics placed on the below-staff baseline. I've started to develop JW Change sequences (also triggered by hotkeys) to move the left endpoint to accomodate a leading dynamic but haven't done anything yet about dynamics or the barline on the right; since that's less common, I've done it manually. But I should.

In short, JW = very useful for hairpins.

User avatar
apkyburz
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:50 am
Finale Version: 26 (+TG, Pattsn, JW)
Operating System: Mac

Post by apkyburz » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:41 pm

motet wrote:I use JW plug-ins to apply hairpins. Someone pointed me to an Autohotkey interface to JW stuff that I'm eternally grateful for, and I've set it up so that typing `< creates a crescendo on the selected beats and `> a decrescendo, at a standard distance below the staff (corresponding to dynamics placed on the below-staff baseline. I've started to develop JW Change sequences (also triggered by hotkeys) to move the left endpoint to accomodate a leading dynamic but haven't done anything yet about dynamics or the barline on the right; since that's less common, I've done it manually. But I should.

In short, JW = very useful for hairpins.
Great, yes. JW Change has all the features I'm looking for. Thx!

Do you use another JW plugin to create the hairpins as well? (since you create them on selected barlines)

How do you automate the Hotkeys? Quickeys/Keyboard maestro or another software?

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:01 pm

JW Pattern is the one for applying them, I believe.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
Harpsi
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:36 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Windows

Post by Harpsi » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:10 pm

@Apkyburz:

One of the more detailed threads on the old forum was this one
http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx ... 1&m=490294

There you will find some sample scripts and links.
The macro program referred to is AutoHotkey (AHK), on Mac you would have to use something else of course. But the ideas are the same.
Finale 2014.5, Finale 25, Dorico 4, Musescore 4
Windows 11

User avatar
apkyburz
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:50 am
Finale Version: 26 (+TG, Pattsn, JW)
Operating System: Mac

Post by apkyburz » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:26 pm

Harpsi wrote:@Apkyburz:

One of the more detailed threads on the old forum was this one
http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx ... 1&m=490294

There you will find some sample scripts and links.
The macro program referred to is AutoHotkey (AHK), on Mac you would have to use something else of course. But the ideas are the same.

Just what I was looking for, thanks!

Post Reply